Gun Newbie

[HHGT]

I am planning on buying a hand gun or possibly a rifle or both. I have never owned a gun but shot a handful of times in my life time. Main purpose is home protection for the new home, but, I have some questions with the following considerations;

1) If I am attacked in my house, I will take a life without hesitation.
2) I have spoken to a few law enforcement friends and they have advised me on what to do inside vs. outside the house.
3) The wife may use it, but she will not take a life - at least that is what she tells me.
4) Concerned about bullets traveling through walls, in the event....
5) Should I take the whole family to the range? Boys are 13 & 10 but very mature for their age.
6) I do not understand how keeping a gun in a safe will provide protection during an emergency - the house is large and having to mess with a combination seems stupid when the time arises.
7) Should I keep multiple arms in various locations? And where should the ammo be?
Finally...
8) What type of hand gun or rifle. Maintenance?

 

[fjpikul]

Shotguns are always the scariest, just point and shoot and you usually hit something. Revolvers are pretty scarey too, but high calibers are hold to hold on target. Semi-automatic pistols (Sig-Sauer, Glock, etc) give pretty good firepower but can also be hard to handle in larger calibers. There are various ammunitions (like birdshot-tiny pellets) that don't have much penetrating power, so won't go through walls but will wound. You should go to a firing range and try them all out. Get something that fits your hands well and you can hit a target with. Everyone involved needs to take a good gun course and lots of target practice. Beginners and rifles don't usually work well. There are experts here with better advice.

 

[Awsum GT]

I just bought a Beretta 40 cal 96 INOX. It is the best pistol I have ever shot.

 

[BlackICE]

Short barrel pump 12g with a Surefire LED forend and ghost ring sights. Look through the ring and whomever the light shines will be enlightened. Rounds from 4 to 00 buck should work well, lower recoiling tactical rounds are available. A holstered 9mm to 45 ACP handgun with a crimson trace laser should carried for backup.

As in performance driving, proper training and tactics are more important than equipment.

 

[Gulf GT]

As someone who has actually had to fend off an attack on my family in my own house with a gun, get something you are very comfortable with. Don't pick a high caliber "because you're told to" or buy a certain gun "because someone says it's good for you”. Great previous advice here on trying them all. Pick the one that feels right in you hands and your gut. Then go shoot it until it feels like an extension of your arm. Take a class if you know nothing. If it happens, and I hope it doesn't, any small problems like too big a caliber, not confident to hit the target, not comfortable with the gun will make for a huge problem. Read books on the laws of gun use for yourself several times until you know it instinctively, because in that moment you will be thinking very very fast and it all happens very very fast. In essence you won't have time to think, instinct will be you ally, and you will naturally do the right things to keep yourself and your family safe.

 

[Twice Bitten GT]

Great gun for home defense is the Taurus Judge.

http://www.taurususa.com/products/gunselector-results.cfm?series=41

Either get a CHL or talk in depth with a CHL instructor about the use of weapon for anything.

Get as much training as possible with the weapon you choose.

Treat all weapons as if they are loaded at all times, even if you know it is not loaded. Teach your family members the same.

Remember that the use of a weapon in home defense is not to take a life, but to stop the aggression in your house!:wink

 

[S592R]

I am planning on buying a hand gun or possibly a rifle or both. I have never owned a gun but shot a handful of times in my life time. Main purpose is home protection for the new home, but, I have some questions with the following considerations;

1) If I am attacked in my house, I will take a life without hesitation.
2) I have spoken to a few law enforcement friends and they have advised me on what to do inside vs. outside the house.
3) The wife may use it, but she will not take a life - at least that is what she tells me.
4) Concerned about bullets traveling through walls, in the event....
5) Should I take the whole family to the range? Boys are 13 & 10 but very mature for their age.
6) I do not understand how keeping a gun in a safe will provide protection during an emergency - the house is large and having to mess with a combination seems stupid when the time arises.
7) Should I keep multiple arms in various locations? And where should the ammo be?
Finally...
8) What type of hand gun or rifle. Maintenance?

Sam,

First having shot only a handful of times in your life I would tell you to stay away from a pistol. Miles away. When encountering a bad guy on your home turf the adernaline is going to be pumping and all the things that you are going to just barely learn in a pistol safety class are going to go right out the window. Likely your going to have an accidental discharge or miss the target all together since no range is going to teach you how to fire under extreme stress.

Please allow me to recommend a shotgun. Remington 870's, Mossberg 590's or an FN TPS. All excellent shot guns ...all 12 gauge. The sound of a 12 ga. cocking alone is enough for most rational people to crap thier pants! Don't get an automatic shotgun ... you want the manual so you have the sound. Likely you will not have to shoot it in a face to face encounter with a bad guy in the house. He'll laydown and pray first. If you do then they make various types of ammo for your scenario. Pm me and I can help you track down the type of ammo and firearm (I have several dealers that I deal with and can help you find what you want at your local dealer if you wish ... I'm not a broker, dealer, or otherwise ... just have copious amounts of firearms experience, training, usage)

We addressed these choices in the members only area a few months ago. Please review that conversation.

S

 

[Empty Pockets]

I am planning on buying a hand gun or possibly a rifle or both. I have never owned a gun but shot a handful of times in my life time. Main purpose is home protection for the new home, but, I have some questions with the following considerations;

1) If I am attacked in my house, I will take a life without hesitation.
2) I have spoken to a few law enforcement friends and they have advised me on what to do inside vs. outside the house.
3) The wife may use it, but she will not take a life - at least that is what she tells me.
4) Concerned about bullets traveling through walls, in the event....
5) Should I take the whole family to the range? Boys are 13 & 10 but very mature for their age.
6) I do not understand how keeping a gun in a safe will provide protection during an emergency - the house is large and having to mess with a combination seems stupid when the time arises.
7) Should I keep multiple arms in various locations? And where should the ammo be?
Finally...
8) What type of hand gun or rifle. Maintenance?

First of all - you live in Cali!!!:ack So, as was suggested, be sure you know all the laws YOU have to follow re: guns/'defense (the crook of course needs to follow NONE:mad). Especially the laws re: having guns in a house with young kids.

IMHO, due to the Sultan of Dubai size of your home, you pbly ought to have multiple firearms secreted in the place...at least have one in the places you all spend the most time (in my place that'd be the fam. rm, kitchen area, rec. room, and of course the bedroom area since that's were you are all night).

And you're right. There's nothing more U-S-E-L-E-S-S than an UNLOADED gun locked up in a safe. ("Time out Mr. Burglar while I go UNLOCK my gun safe in the bedroom and get my gun...and then RUN to the garage and get my ammo out of my seperate, locked, ammo safe there...and LOAD my weapon...and then run back here & shoot your sorry self." Oh, ya. THAT would work.) But, you have 2 young kids. And MOST kids (especially boys) will not be able to resist "playing" with a gun if it's accessable. So, you have a big delema that us...ah-hummm..."older" folks don't. And frankly, I don't see an easy way to deal with all eliments of that issue. But, again, the laws in your state will dictate what you can & cannot L-E-G-A-L-L-Y do in all these areas.

DEFINATELY take everybody to the range whether you think they'll ever actually use any of your guns or not. Mucho less chance of having a gun accident in your home if everybody knows what's what.

About the only ammo that won't necessarily go thru the average interior wall is birdshot...but, if your intruder is ARMED I wouldn't wanna count on that stuff 'dropping him' - especially if the full pattern doesn't hit him. Smaller caliber, light load, hollow nose hand gun ammo pbly wouldn't go thru walls either. 'Can't recall what it's called, but there IS ammo that's been designed for use by security personnel on airplanes that fragments on impact & won't go thru the plane's fuselage. So, that's an option too - if you can find the stuff.

Just speaking for my own darn self, "carry" weapon is a .45 cal Springfield Arms "XD" Compact. Ammo is Hornady 200gr +P TAP (ya. "Overkill". But then so is a TT FGT!). Mine has a tactical laser mounted...but, for normal purposes/situations that's really not necessary.
The shotgun I'm TRYING to get (but that's "back ordered " from heck to breakfast) is a Remington 870 pump, model #25077 "Express"...18" barrel. (00 buck ammo.)
The FN TPS is pbly the nastiest LOOKING shotgun you'll ever see...but the key word there is "see". At night - who's gunna? And as I recall, the FN is around $700 (who knows now post election) as opposed to $350 (ditto: post election) for the 870 above. There's a member here who just bought an FN TPS who may chime in on those.

But, as was mentioned by Gulf '- you need to pick something that feels right to you & the Mrs. Maybe get a seperate piece that feels right to your wife as well, since her hand size/grip/strength will be different than yours. (That said, S592R's advice re: pistols is pbly the best advice as far as your "experience"(?) level with them is concerned.)

 

[ChipBeck]

Shotgun.

8) What type of hand gun or rifle. Maintenance?

Neither. The best home defense weapon is a shotgun. Bird shot will limit penetration through walls to minimise risk to other home occupants. The shotgun is MUCH easier to use, far more intimidating to an intruder facing one and, if you do have to use it, much more effective at ending things quickly.

Non-shooters and even many gun owners underestimate the difficulty in using a pistol effectively. Proficient use of a handgun is a martial art that requires frequent practice and some serious training. Statistics tell us that Police officers who fire their handguns in the line of duty do so at an average distance of 7 feet. They hit the individual they are shooting at with fewer than one out of every six shots they fire!! I'm not even talking about kill shots, I'm talking about drawing blood with a hit at any part of their body! And these are trained police officers. It's one thing to be able to hit a target at the range when you have lots of time and you calm and relaxed. When the excrement hits the oscillator however, somebody is trying to kill you, and adrenaline is flooding your bloodstream, shooting abilities vaporize.

I'll repeat my story about a cowboy seen wearing his sixgun in town. A woman shopkeeper asked him, "You're wearing a pistol! Are you expecting trouble?" The cowboy replied, "No mamm, if I was expecting trouble, I'd be carrying a shotgun."

Chip

 

[Awsum GT]

You may want to keep a few taser guns around the home but keep the gun locked up until you go to bed. Then place the loaded gun next to your bed at night. Lock it back up in the morning.

The key words in California are "I feared for my life or the life of my family"

 

[RALPHIE]

Sam -

In a house that large, I would also recommend silent motion detectors in various areas of interest to alert you of the presence of an unknown or unwanted person. Of course, if you have roaming pets, they would have to be isolated from those areas.

I agree with Chip that a shotgun is probably the best weapon of defense, but be extremely careful to identify the unknown prior to any defensive action. I have had unannounced relatives and friends enter my home in the evenings or even late at night, as they are on an important vigil and are just passing through. The old adage "Shoot first and ask questions later" may hurt someone you love.

 

[ItsOnlyMoney]

My choice is an FN TPS. The things that were important to me were: 1. Ammo not going through walls due to two small children 2. Something my wife could shoot if she had to. 3. 7 round capacity.
As already stated, you need to be very comfortable with whatever you choose.

 

[Empty Pockets]

...I would also recommend silent motion detectors ...Of course, if you have roaming pets, they would have to be isolated from those areas.

QUOTE]


Not necessarily. 'Depends on what TYPE sensors they are and how they're "aimed". I have several in my home and have had no pblms with pets setting 'em off.

 

[Fubar]

Home protection... AK-47 (welcome to Texas), accept no substitute. When you absolutely, postively have to kill that mother******.

be careful :thumbsup

 

[djs]

What Chip says.

Additionally, any PUMP action 12 or even 20G loaded with #4,6, or 7 1/2 bird shot. The sound of the pump action will deter all but the craziest of home invaders, and at 20 yards or less, an ounce or more of bird shot will do serious damage.

 

[djs]

One last suggestion; a big, @#$%ing dog.
When we first moved into our current home, ours was one of only a few lots being built on. My wife was at home with 2 kids under 2, fairly isolated, with the next neighbor 1/4 mile away. I had a 90lb Chesapeake Bay retriever for waterfowl hunting that absolutely loved my family, and did not like strangers.
Now, I'm not about to say that the dog could stop some nut intent on harming your family, but he sure could discourage the majority of jerks out there.

 

[dbk]

Honestly, I've heard the pump shotgun theory many times, but I've never seen it in action. You people know where I live, and I have a number of friends who have had to kill people using handguns in the last couple years. Home invasions are rare, but I'd rather be proficient with a handgun I'm comfortable with than casually expect to pick up the sawed-off and start blasting.

The number one weapon you can have, by far, is preparation. Hit the range. Alot. Take a weapons class and have a big ugly mouth breathing instructor standing over your shoulder giving you that fun experience. Don't waste your money on super expensive weapons goodies and then forget the code to the lockbox and leave the safety on when you hear the door break down. All the recommendations are academic if you don't get reps and training. Situational awareness is more valuable than any specific caliber. God forbid your house gets invaded, you don't want to pick up an AR and send .223 pinging off the china three rooms away.

I keep a mixed bag at arms length when I go to bed. If you're concerned about shooting through walls, stay away from rifles. Honestly, stay away from rifles period for home defense, unless you're a Marine or you live away from other houses and you know exactly where everyone is in your house at all times. A semi-auto shotgun would be a terrible thing to run into coming up the stairs, and you won't send .223 into the neighbor's kitchen. Likewise, for handguns, a smooth shooting and maintained 1911 has less kick than many .40s, and when .45 hits someone in the chest, you may see the soles of their shoes.

I know some people are of the mind that gun ownership is just one big dick swinging contest, but a Japanese admiral once said that mainland U.S.A would never be invaded because there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass. Alot of us intend to keep it that way, for the benefit of all enemies, foreign and domestic.

 

[BlackICE]

What Chip says.

Additionally, any PUMP action 12 or even 20G loaded with #4,6, or 7 1/2 bird shot. The sound of the pump action will deter all but the craziest of home invaders, and at 20 yards or less, an ounce or more of bird shot will do serious damage.

Bird shot is very effective at close range 20' (20 yards not IMHO) but at futher distances and or if the person is wearing thick clothing, adaquete penatration is questionable. Of course body armour of any type will stop birdshot and buckshot for that matter.

 

[S592R]

I agree with DBK's post about training ... factually ... instead of buying a HK USP .45 (880.00 pistol) I'd say buy an xd .45 and 380.00 in ammo ... then go have a few fun days at the range to learn the damn thing inside and out.

The problem that most people face is lack of familiarity with what they use. Think of it this way. How good would you be with your computer if you only used it three times a year for an hour or so? Yet, people thing that those 150 rounds makes them "good" with the weapon. If you have not shot 500 out of your pistol .. you barely know it and your weapon is barely broken in. Remember ... 50 rounds cool completely .. clean then 50 rounds again cool completely and clean.. Works the weapon in .. keeps the owner from tiring too much. After the first 500 then shoot 100 then cool completely. Unless you own several barrels for each weapon ..

But the topic was home defense. Train often ... shoot what is comfortable and make sure everyone shoots at least 500 rounds a year or more just to be "ready" and not shoot your foot off.

If you go shotgun make sure you get one with ghost ring sites so its easier to use in the dark. Also ... birdshot ... not a good idea. A man weighing 200 lbs most likely would not be stopped unless you shot him in the face and blinded him. 00 Buck in the vest will still down someone due to energy. Slugs the same. But then again .... pistols will not defeat a type 3 vest anyway. FYI. a .45 in the vest under 15 feet will take someone to the ground vest or no vest. If it doesn't your shooting at bigfoot and you'd better break out the elephant gun!

Good hunting.

 

[Fubar]

I have a Winchester riot 12 gage for home defense (with slugs). One night my dog was attacked by a raccoon (big one) so I go out and unload the 12 on the raccoon. I took down my entire back yard fence in the process. (don't worry, my house backed up to 500 acres of free range at the time).

It was kind of funny the next day. A little sunlight put a whole new shine on my rambo routine. The most important thing is to be careful. Post up a picture of your fist kill