FORD GTand the shelby cobra


gtforme

GT Owner
Apr 12, 2009
348
Guys

My dream car prior to owning my FORD GT was a superformance cobra MK 111, I have no regerets at all about buying the FORD GT , but I am now considering getting a cobra and I was wondering from thiose of you that own both or have owned both what do you now think of the cobra

Is it still fun to drive ??

Does it get you as much attention as the GT ??

Any other comments or comparisons would be appreciated

I would imagine they make a pretty nice pair in the garage

Thanks
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,361
Washington State
PM Chip. He had both for sometime & should be able to answer whatever question you have regarding same.

(I believe his only "complaint"(?) about the cobra ITSELF was oil leaks. :cheers)
 

Nardo GT

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2006
2,300
Texas
Gets as much attention but........

I highly recommend an aluminum bodied car. Everyone just assumes you have a "kit" and I can't stand "kits". They remind me of being a "poser". If you go fiberglass I would buy a $25K car just for fun & grins. Otherwise go the $100K route and get the aluminum. My car is believed to be an AC Cobra built by Brian Angliss in the early eighties which makes it far from a "kit". The brushed aluminum Kirkham cars are gorgeous as Chip had. They are completely different to drive from a GT. Totally crude, unrefined, obnoxiously loud, brute force. You get tired of the drive pretty fast imo. Garage art imo. I am too old to enjoy them....I prefer silent, refined power,,,,,,nice to have brakes, power steering and a/c too. Given the choice The GT wins hands down. The GT forum has the best group of gentlemen (and a lady or 2) assembled I have ever known. Corvette, Ferrari, Cobra clubs.....not so much. I will leave it at that....and again just my 2 cents.
 

t32b

Verde
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 21, 2007
432
Bay Area, CA
Though not a very well founded survey, I will say that the car, amazing as it is (a personal favorite of mine) does not have the crowd appeal of the GT.
I attend a C&C gathering on Saturday's in San Jose and there are usually one or two well built Cobra's there regularly. When I bring the GT, the crowds all migrate to the car and the Cobra's look rather lonely.
Truth is, I don't get off on drawing a crowd with the GT, but it is inevitable. And you asked.
Separately, depending on your planned use for the car, as much as the aluminum models are works of art, I'd love to own the fiberglass version so I could drive it anywhere without having to worry about door dings and dents. It's why the GT is a 'round tripper' car - I leave the garage and don't stop until I get back home :)
I keep promising myself that I'll build an Ultima Can-Am someday for the same reason.
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,773
Scottsdale, Arizona
Aluminum Cobras.

Guys,
I am now considering getting a Cobra and I was wondering from those of you that own both or have owned both what do you now think of the Cobra.

Is it still fun to drive ??

Does it get you as much attention as the GT ??

Any other comments or comparisons would be appreciated.

I would imagine they make a pretty nice pair in the garage.

Thanks

GTforme,

For three years I owned both an aluminum bodied Cobra (Kirkham), my Ford GT, and a Shelby Mustang. That Shelby trifecta certainly did look great in my garage as the picture below reveals. It is estimated that there are over 60,000 reproduction fiberglass Cobras in existence today. Just over 1000 aluminum bodied originals were produced and in all the years since Cobra production ended, fewer than 700 new aluminum Cobras have been built. This puts genuine aluminum cars in an entirely different league than their fiberglass brothers. All Kirkham Cobras are listed in the SAAC Shelby International Registry. Fiberglass reproductions are not. Kirkham builds all the aluminum Cobras for Shelby today.

The aluminum car is considerably lighter than a fiberglas car. My Kirkham weighed 2200 pounds and put 650 hp to the rear wheels. It sounded like a top fuel funny car at idle and accelerated with similar noise and fury that absolutely terrified most passengers on their first drive. The extreme brutal nature of the car combined with no power steering or brakes, no air conditioning, no radio, no top and no side windows prevents you from using the car for anything other than joy rides. I often take Veronica to dinner in my GT, I could never take her to dinner in the Cobra and she would arrive windblown and out of sorts.

I always enjoyed driving the Cobra and it did get a lot of attention, but the society of Cobra owners is nothing like the brotherhood of Ford GT owners. At a Cobra gathering I would normally have the only aluminum car and it was akin to Elvis showing up at a church choir recital. Everybody wanted to sit in it, touch it, and stare at it. It was louder than anybody else's Cobra, it was faster, and it was prettier.

Ford GT gatherings like Tim's Track Day last weekend, and our marvelous Rallies, are filled with interesting people, exotic locations, and find food and drink. Cobra gatherings are generally daytime drives to a picnic area at a local lake, capped off with a meal of Kentucky Fried Chicken eaten off of a paper plate. The Ford GT Forum pretty much spoils you, totally ruining any other automotive experience.

The biggest problem I had with my Cobra was it's lack of a top. I've had several skin cancer operations and I would only drive my Cobra at night. There were no provisions to add a soft top to my car and I didn't like the looks of the soft top anyway. So after not driving it for most of a year, I sold my Cobra to another forum member.

Here's some things to expect.

1. A lot of maintenance. Things break on Cobras frequently. If you have a genuine 427FE, it's going to leak oil. When it stops leaking oil, you are out of oil.

2. You won't use it much. A Cobra is kind of like a machine gun. When you first get one, you take it out every weekend and let all of your friends shoot it. A wild and different experience. Then, you put your machine gun in your gun safe, and your Cobra in your garage. Neither one will venture out very often six months after you acquire it.

3. Tread carefully, the cars are dangerous. A 600+ horsepower Coors Light beer can with a 90 inch wheelbase can get you in a whole lot of trouble in a split second. The Cobras thin tubular frame, no guard beams in the doors, and a complete lack of crashworthiness, makes a Smart Car look as safe as a Hummer H1.

That said, no automobile enthusiasts life is complete until they own a big block Cobra for a while. A potentially deadly but seductive mistress that we have all dreamed about since childhood. I loved the little car. I've posted some photos of my Kirkham Cobra below.

I love my Ford GT a whole lot more though. That's my take on it.

Chip
 

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RADGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Aug 31, 2006
858
Connecticut
Here are my two cents. I first owned a CSX 4000 series car in 2001 w/ a 428. Car was really fun to drive but like Chip said after the initlal few months combined with New England weather, drives became fewer and far between. The car was fiberglass, as Aluminum versions from Shelby were priced at 139,000+. Sad to say that I also looked at an original 289 that same year that I could have bought for 175,000. Anyway, owned the CSX 4000 for two years then wanted an alloy car and since I really liked the 289 style, I bought a Kirkham Aluminum hybrid which is the 289 body style on a 427 chassis. Car was great and had a butt kickin 351 in it. Like Chip, mine was brushed Aluminum with poliched stripes. Very unique in appearance. Unfortunately everytime I parked anywhere multiple people would want to touch the aluminum which would leave a fingerprint that then wad to be windexed off w/ a scotch brite pad. Kept the Kirkham for two years and put very little mileage it. Cobras in general are not what you want to drive on a hot summer day. After the Kirkham, I decided to be more frugal and was able to find a Contemporary FIA(they only made seven and mine was the last before they went out of business). Having only $43,000 into the car is a bonus compared to the Kirkham and CSX. I still do not drive it much but with less money in it, I do not feel so bad. Two years ago I put it up for sale, had someone come buy the first day of spring and took him for a test ride...decided that I could not part with it and even this year put it up for sale and then pulled it of. The cars are a blast to drive but with no safety features other than 5/6 point restraint, they can be dangerous. Even though I do not drive mine too much, I still love the car though I love my GT more. Superformance makes a good product. I would look on www.cobracountry.com in the cobras for sale section and also look at ERA replicas.


Stu
 

w. mitty

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 1, 2005
704
IMG_03161.jpg


I built Kirkham #482. Drove it for about three years on the track and on the street. Sold it to a pilot in Paris, France. The comments posted here are spot on. Read Chip's and RADGT's comments carefully. It is a brutal experience, but one that should not be missed. I drove mine nearly 10,000 miles with a cut down windshield and Harley goggles. It was a true rush, and I have only good memories. The Kirkham brothers are my neighbors and are great people to know.
 

Thugboat

GT Owner
Jan 20, 2009
851
Humble Texas
Would we realize how sweet sugar is if there wasn't salt?:eek

The two cars are totally different experiences. My cobra was the kind of car I wanted when I was young, my GT is the car I wanted when I got older. So, I own both. I wake up somedays and feel loud and obnoxious and want to drive the Cobra, somedays it's A/C, heat, great stereo and silent but deadly power, I take the GT. Sure, the GT is the better car and if I had only one choice it would be the GT, but your question wasn't about owning just one or the people, it was about the cars and this is just my 2 cents.

PLUS! I built my Cobra with my 14 yr old son, I know every bolt, nut and blood stain on the car. I couldn't build a GT!
 

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THamonGT

GT
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Since owning my 2006 Ford GT my wife says my AC Mark IV aluminum body Cobra has become the step child on the top of my Lift and driven rarely. Nothing like the GT to own and drive. Much more versatile and fun to drive. Tomy Hamon
 

gtforme

GT Owner
Apr 12, 2009
348
As usual you guys have given me great responses and advise and for that I than you once again

Tugboat

The picture you included was great as my GT is also white with blue and I can see how a cobra would look sitting beside her

I agree with all of you about the passion to own a cobra as most guys if not all guys who own GTs probably had an urge to own a cobra at sometime

Tugboats anology about when to drive each car is exactly what I told my wife when she asked why do you need to own both , sometimes you just feel like making a lot of noise and getting behind a machine that stands for nothing but power and sometimes the refiment of the GT is all you need to make your day

I now have to decide if I want to go with a superfiormance cobra or build one of the new mark IV factory five cobras as we dont have many choices here in Canada for cobras

Thanks again
 

06fordgt

GT
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Nov 8, 2006
1,908
Toronto Canada
GTforme I also have both cars. I have the Supeformance MK III. This was my first purchase of a real sports car in Dec 2001. I have almost 28,000 miles on her. I even drove her the first winter here in Toronto Canada (thankfully there wasn't any snow) By far they are 2 different cars. I love driving BOTH of them. I have been on numerous all day cruises and 8 hour trips to Ohio in the cobra. Now it does have a soft top and tonneau cover. Best of all my wife comes with me on all the trips and she LOVES that car. What a trooper!! We have even driven her in the rain a few times by circumstnace but the the soft top while not waterproof did provide more than enough protection. There is one fellow SPFer that drives his car all year round and in the snow. It is his daily driver. I am also working on a 4000 series alum car. That will be mainly for show and excellent weather driving. I agree though that all aluminum car at car shows and the like is a big PIA!!. A friend of mine has a polished Kirkham and he is so fed up he is selling it. People look with their HANDS NOT their EYES.
I will in no way sell my cobra. The car is excellent. It hardly ever breaks down. SPF is the best built "cobra" out there without a doubt. You won't go wrong buying an SPF. SPF also makes bodies for Shelby. In addition SPF is the only authorized and liscened by Shelby to make the "cobra". This is not a KIT car. All pieces are NOS or new manufacture parts to ISO 9000 standards. The rollers are complete factory built pieces.
Now as for the GT, EXCELLENT!! So good I bought 2. I love driving that as well. It all depends on what I feel like driving convertable or coupe. That really is the deciding factor. The cobra also has a large trunk to store items. The GT as you know has nothing for storage IMO.
Both cars garner a lot of attention any where I have been.
Each have been excellent purchases. I do not regret either one. Even though the cobra was available before the GT I would not have sold my cobra to help pay for the GT if I had to.
Hope this helps with your thinking.
:cheers
 

FLGT

Member
Oct 16, 2006
12
SW Florida
Kirkham Cobra

Hello, I own a Kirkham Aluminum Body Cobra. It came as a finished roller from Kirkham. I am having a new all Aluminum 427 SOHC Cammer engine built for it. If you are interested the car can be bought as a finished 0 mile roller or with the new "Cammer". Just PM me if you would like more information on the car. I owned both the Ford GT and Cobras. Chip said it better than I have ever heard it said above. I am currently lookng for a no stripe low low mile Ford GT to add to the stable.:biggrin
 

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gtforme

GT Owner
Apr 12, 2009
348
06fordgt - Good to hear from another fello Canadian , great that we got Gold

Now back to cars , I really like the SPF cobra and I think I know just about all there is to know about these cars even if I dont own one as I have even flown to Quebec from here in BC just to look at one , unfortunately I didnt buy the one I went to look at as the guy selling it was questionable

As I am sure you know are insane goverment had a pissing match with Macro autosports and the cars are no longer allowed in the country , that makes my search even harder

I am currentkly looking at 4 SPFs in Ontario and possibly a mark IV FFR build hopefully one of those will come to my garage

If you know of anyone selling an SPF , plese let me know

Thanks

Rob
 

pe2unia

GT
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
06fordgt - Good to hear from another fello Canadian , great that we got Gold

Now back to cars , I really like the SPF cobra and I think I know just about all there is to know about these cars even if I dont own one as I have even flown to Quebec from here in BC just to look at one , unfortunately I didnt buy the one I went to look at as the guy selling it was questionable

As I am sure you know are insane goverment had a pissing match with Macro autosports and the cars are no longer allowed in the country , that makes my search even harder

I am currentkly looking at 4 SPFs in Ontario and possibly a mark IV FFR build hopefully one of those will come to my garage

If you know of anyone selling an SPF , plese let me know

Thanks

Rob

Check out these guys: Rick Pearce/Rob Carpenter (Sales) 757-898-1200

http://www.autohausclassics.com/mkiii.htm
 

GT35065

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
I have spf #1108 with a 408 stroker, 550HP, 500 ft/lbs torque. I have had it for six years and love it! Much easier to work on than a big block, and more power than you can use (less weight too). I'm in FL so usually lots of good days to drive. On my 50th birthday I shipped the car up to MN for the summer and have never had more fun on the back country roads. What a blast! As for aluminum or glass, that totally depends on your wants and needs. I wouldn't have an aluminum car because to me the Cobra is just a toy, and I don't want to tie up over $100,000 in a toy (other opinions may vary). You would find the fit and finish on an SPF astonishing for the money. They are factory built in South Africa not a "kit car".

The handeling on the SPF's are outstanding, and can be set up to race easily. Talk to Dennis Olthoff who races one of these competitively and usually kicks a## doing it. He is a dealer in North Carolina. Last I talked to him his engine of choice was the 408 stroker.

Bought mine used with 1200 miles on it, and it was in perfect condition. I'll bet there are a fair number on the market given the economy and I'm sure prices are soft. I'd sell you mine, but it is too much fun. As others have said, the power is absolutely brutal, and they are extreemly dangerous... hence all the fun. There is a dedicated owners only forum that is a wealth of information. Also many improvements have been made since the early cars under #700 or so, so do some research.

Here is my Ford threesome.
 

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GTRob

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2009
74
In addition SPF is the only authorized and liscened by Shelby to make the "cobra".

Not exactly true from what I have hear and read, but do not quote me on it (did not pay too close attention to the law sues). I do not know exactly what is being licensed, but basically the MKIII is built under license of Shelby. I guess the only change is Shelby gets a royality. That is why the car was and is still called a MKIII. The cars were never shipped with shelby or cobra emblems on them and the same hold true for Factory 5 as they are trade marked and not marketed as Cobras.

http://www.erareplicas.com/history/lawsuit/index.htm

Take a look at the SPF website and you will also see the following quote:
"There's an exception when it comes to Jimmy Price and Lance Stander. Superformance International makes replica Cobras in South Africa and calls the two-seat roadster they build the MKIII. It's not a true Shelby, but I've endorsed and licensed the car for being as close to correct and well-built as possible."

- Carroll Shelby (Octane, Oct. 2006)


Shelby is just trying to milk as must as he can (not saying he is wrong) since people have built very successful businesses in the replica car business. That was an article in one of the magazine that had a caption "Carroll $helby" as he was suing anyone in sight.
Lamborghini has done the same thing and has closed allot of body shops that produced replica bodies (I do not know why people build replica Lamborghinis as there are better cars to build, but hey).

I now have to decide if I want to go with a superfiormance cobra or build one of the new mark IV factory five cobras as we dont have many choices here in Canada for cobras

Actually, there are a few options. There is a guy I work with who built a Cobra (in 2001 if I remember correctly) with an all Canadian chassis and body (built in Ontario). found the shop that built the chassis before I knew he had a Cobra. There were same modification he had to do to the chassis and passed them along to the manufacturer who employed them all for future chassis builds. After talking to him the car is about 90-95% built with Canadian sources parts.

Thanks
Rob
 

TO AWSUM

Ford GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 4, 2007
1,506
Niceville FL
gtforme,

I also own both a GT and Cobra replica. I agree with everything everyone has said. Here's a few more tidbits to chew on that I just sent to a friend who was considering buying a Cobra.

The GT and Cobra are worlds apart when it comes to the driving experience and the cost. One probably over-generalized definition I was given from a collector car insurer: replicas are recognized by most insurance agents as being built by a factory (SPF, ERA, Unique, Kirkum, SAA, etc.) and kits are recognized as being built in someone's garage usually from a donor car (Mustang).

In the replica/kit world, you generally get what you pay for. You can buy the less expensive kits, but they usually lack good handling and good body fit normally. Every once in a while, you can find one of the less expensive Cobra kits that was put together well by a very skilled builder, but the majority are not. Poor construction skills of the less expensive kits invites many mechanical problems, handling problems, etc.

Pros:
Lots of fun – many are raced, car clubs, car shows, etc.
Lots of admirers
Experience driving/owning the meanest muscle car of the 1960s-2000s. Faster 0-60 times (4.2 seconds) than stock Vipers, corvettes, etc. Was the fastest production car ever made until the 2000s when they started manufacturing the 200 mph Supercars and 600 HP+, twin turbo cars.
Easy to maintain. No requirement for computer scanners to test smog devices, fuel injectors, computers, etc. Just old school maintenance – spark plugs, brake pads, oil/filters, gas.

Cons:
Pretty much a 4-wheel motorcycle, so they are a fair weather car and usually not an everyday driver unless you live in S. Calif where it never rains.

Basically 3 styles of Cobras:
Slab side = small block engine, 1962-1964 design, narrow body and small fenders, roll bar goes thru passenger compartment.
427 = big block engine, 1964-67 design, wide body and flared fenders, roll bar outside/behind driver compartment.
FIA = small block engine, with a 427 flared fender body style and a few other almost imperceptible differences, roll bar goes thru passenger compartment.

The best manufacturers in my opinion only are:
Unique (427 and FIA) = Gadsden AL (You can’t beat their post-purchase support, truly outstanding. Very close copy of an original, if that interests you.)
ERA (427 and FIA) = Connecticut (Very good support and probably the closest replica of an original, but also harder to construct than a Unique.)
Superformance (427) = South Florida (Easiest to construct, South African import. Don’t know about their support. No construction, painting, etc. required except to install the engine and transmission. This is how they all get around the laws that pertain to 2010 safety devices (airbags) smog devices, etc.)
Shelby American (427 and FIA) = Las Vegas (Very expensive – you are buying the name and privilege of being in the Shelby register) They also offer an aluminum body from Kirkum and South Africa.
Kirkum (slab side, 427 and FIA) = Michigan, I think. Fiberglass and primarily aluminum bodies – expensive. They provide the aluminum bodies for Shelby American, although I think Shelby also gets aluminum bodies from South Africa now.
Some folks like the new Backdraft replicas, but I don’t have much experience with them, so I don’t know about their support. They attend a lot of Cobra events, so I assume their support/warrantees are good. Backdraft and Factory Five are the most aggressive in their advertisements where the other manufacturers rely mostly on word-of-mouth reputations for their advertising.
Aurora (slab side) = not being manufactured anymore, but you can find them used.

Here’s 4 great web sites to do some research: http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/index.php ;
http://www.uniquemotorcars.com/ ;
http://www.erareplicas.com/427/427sc.htm#backfromstdparts ; http://www.uniquecobra.com/

Here’s a good web site to check out what is for sale: http://www.cobracountry.com/ You will see that the above “best manufacturers” also command the highest prices because people know what they are getting for their money. Unlike a Factory Five, Shell Valley, and some others, you really don’t know what you are getting because it depends on the skill of the builder and whether he used new parts or used parts – some are outstanding builds and some are just unsafe with bad suspension designs, bad brakes, etc. also making them unreliable. The “best manufacturers” make it almost impossible to mess up the build because of how well the replica is designed and the complete list of new parts included in their rollers. They are therefore much more standard in their construction, so you know what you are buying, and is why they generally command the highest sales prices. I watched a program on TV a few days ago, that featured the Factory 5 Racing Cobra factory tour and it now appears they are building replicas and not the kits from a few years ago. Unlike a GT where you know what you are buying becasue they are all standard, when purchasing a Cobra replica/kit, you need to do your research.

Good luck, Jer
 
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RADGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Aug 31, 2006
858
Connecticut
All god points from GTRob. Some more information. Kirkham is in Provo, Utah and they have a great website. Unique also has a good website and all prices have been available depending on kit and options. ERA has a great website and also has a photographic representation comparing 427's and FIA. If you are looking used, include Contemporary in your search as they were known for there high quality before the company was sold and then apparantly closed. When used Contemporary 427's come up for sale,they usually do not last long. If you go with an SPF make sure needed support is nearby incase you need it. Both Unique and ERA are known for their excellent support.

Stu
 

GTMikey

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
May 4, 2008
519
Lake Tahoe
In my first ride ever in a Cobra I got the official Cobra "Tatoo" on my achilles from the side pipe as I stepped out of the car. Fun to drive, but no where near as stable/safe as a GT. You roll it, game over.
 

GTRob

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2009
74
Remember that gtforme lives in Canada and cannot import a finished or disassembled car because it is considered a kit. Any kit built in the last 15 years is not admissible. There are some rules on the disassembled kits that allow you to import it, but you have to work with the manufacturer of the kit to have them remove brake/fueling/suspension components, have a bunch of documents, etc.