Damn........
- Thread starter Specracer
- Start date
Quick update, I have had a chance to look further. The retaining fastners are NOT stripped or sheared in any way, see the picture. I can get a pick in the holes 1 1/4". In looking at the polished look of the end of the output shaft it looks as though they backed out slowly and the polished look is from the cup sliding on the splines as the play occured. I bet when the half shaft is removed they will be sitting inside the cup.
Also in feeling the lateral play (or lack there of) on the other side, I do think that an inspection would catch this, at least 1/2 of the way out or more.
In feeling the other side, I can tell that the only play in and out is a tiny bit of movement in which is the output shaft moving in the transaxle. The half shaft seems tight to the output shaft.
Also in feeling the lateral play (or lack there of) on the other side, I do think that an inspection would catch this, at least 1/2 of the way out or more.
In feeling the other side, I can tell that the only play in and out is a tiny bit of movement in which is the output shaft moving in the transaxle. The half shaft seems tight to the output shaft.
Attachments
Beach-GT
GT Owner
Removal
So If you just leave the spline in place and remove the bolts one at a time to drill them for a wire it looks like you do not have to drain the transaxle. I have to check and see if the bolts can be re-used or if I need to buy new ones but this looks too serious to leave to chance. :ack
So If you just leave the spline in place and remove the bolts one at a time to drill them for a wire it looks like you do not have to drain the transaxle. I have to check and see if the bolts can be re-used or if I need to buy new ones but this looks too serious to leave to chance. :ack
GTF-40
GT Owner
from the picture, it looks like the bolts backed out. this could be from under torqueing as originaly mentioned or it could be from stretching of the bolt close to the head from side force causeing the bolts to become loose. there is 2 areas worth looking at for side force.
one area is if we have a side force exerted from inside the transaxle under accel and deaccel, being caused by the side force on the ring gear acting like a bearing puller inside the transaxle pulling against the flange. if this is happening then it would be more likely that we would be seeing the problem on the same axle on all the cars, ie: drivers side axle.
the other possibility is that the impacting side forces from the axle is stretching the bolt or just simply loosening the bolts to where then can back out. the axle does have slide joints in the cv joints to allow the extension and retraction of the axle during suspension travel but under hard acceleration there is quite a bind in these slide joints causeing considerable side force loads on the 2 bolts when the rear suspension is traveling.
with the car in neutral you can grab the axle and slide it in and out of the cv joints as there is no torque on the slides at that moment. if this is the cause i would think we would be seeing this on both axles.
buying a set of new bolts and drilling and wireing these would be a temporary fix if the bolts are stretching.
i would recomend new bolts and be careful where drilling and not to drill to big of a hole so as not to weaken the head of the bolt , also recommend useing stainless safety wire.
as previously posted, keeping a eye on the flange to transmission clearance while pulling on the flange is a good way to monitor this.
i would like to see the backed out bolts carefully examined for stretch. seems like this is an important issue to get taken care of.
just my thoughts....george
one area is if we have a side force exerted from inside the transaxle under accel and deaccel, being caused by the side force on the ring gear acting like a bearing puller inside the transaxle pulling against the flange. if this is happening then it would be more likely that we would be seeing the problem on the same axle on all the cars, ie: drivers side axle.
the other possibility is that the impacting side forces from the axle is stretching the bolt or just simply loosening the bolts to where then can back out. the axle does have slide joints in the cv joints to allow the extension and retraction of the axle during suspension travel but under hard acceleration there is quite a bind in these slide joints causeing considerable side force loads on the 2 bolts when the rear suspension is traveling.
with the car in neutral you can grab the axle and slide it in and out of the cv joints as there is no torque on the slides at that moment. if this is the cause i would think we would be seeing this on both axles.
buying a set of new bolts and drilling and wireing these would be a temporary fix if the bolts are stretching.
i would recomend new bolts and be careful where drilling and not to drill to big of a hole so as not to weaken the head of the bolt , also recommend useing stainless safety wire.
as previously posted, keeping a eye on the flange to transmission clearance while pulling on the flange is a good way to monitor this.
i would like to see the backed out bolts carefully examined for stretch. seems like this is an important issue to get taken care of.
just my thoughts....george
abolfaz
GT Owner
This is really strange, the first time it happened to me on the drivers side, the two bolts sheared in half and the output shaft actually fell out of the diff. The second time they sheared the shaft didn't fall out all the way, but they were sheared. I don't see how yours just backed out like that.
The big question here as I raised on my thread regarding my car ( http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19241#post19241 ) is why the hell did Ricardo use two small bolts rather than one large bolt like everyone else does?
The big question here as I raised on my thread regarding my car ( http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19241#post19241 ) is why the hell did Ricardo use two small bolts rather than one large bolt like everyone else does?
Beats me. I think that we must be the lucky ones, becasue it does not seem to be happening to all cars. Mine was @ about 900 miles, and your was in the same range right?
I an a bit leary to wire them, because of making the hole. These are not large bolts. Super lock tight would at least be a good start, as it is clear nothing is there now. Hopefully the ford "hotline" for the dealer will come up with an engineered suggestion..........
I an a bit leary to wire them, because of making the hole. These are not large bolts. Super lock tight would at least be a good start, as it is clear nothing is there now. Hopefully the ford "hotline" for the dealer will come up with an engineered suggestion..........
gwbartlett
GT Owner
My GT is a 2005 #498. At the 5000 mile service the tech noticed oil in the right inner axle boot. Upon insection he noticed that the 2 flange bolts were loose. When disassembled he noted that the washer that the 2 bolts secure had wear. The wear was where the bolt heads tighten against the washer. The left side was the same. The replacement washer appeared to be hardened, the original one appeared not to be hardened allowing the bolt heads to "sink" into the washer allowing a loss of torque. The refitting instructions call for using a Ford Locktight on the bolt threads. Also, the instructions call for not only the 2 flange bolts to be replaced but also the CV joint to flange bolts. These bolts can only be used once.
K-P Garage
GT Owner
With all due respect
Folks, I have read all the posts about how this is happening and proposed wiring and other remedies. I would not do any of these things. This is a FORD problem. They need to fix it. Period! I know the Ford folks read the posts on this website and no doubt many of the GT team specifically.
Ironically, the transaxle was the achille's heel of the GT40 back in the sixties. It took quite awhile to sort out the problems then but that was primarily a race car with limited production. Certainly nothing like the numbers of the new GT.
We need to somehow get a response to this from the actual GT people at Ford. An awesome car like this deserves an awesome problem solving response before this gets worse.
Folks, I have read all the posts about how this is happening and proposed wiring and other remedies. I would not do any of these things. This is a FORD problem. They need to fix it. Period! I know the Ford folks read the posts on this website and no doubt many of the GT team specifically.
Ironically, the transaxle was the achille's heel of the GT40 back in the sixties. It took quite awhile to sort out the problems then but that was primarily a race car with limited production. Certainly nothing like the numbers of the new GT.
We need to somehow get a response to this from the actual GT people at Ford. An awesome car like this deserves an awesome problem solving response before this gets worse.
Agreed 100% which is why I have not fixed it myself. I wanted Ford to fix it, so there is proper documentation back up the line to hopefully help others later. As posted by Gwbartlett, the reassembly procedure is different that the original assembly (addition of thread locker).
gwbartlett
GT Owner
The warranty charge for replacng the flange bolts and washers on both sides was 2.8 hours. Interestingly the mechanic replaced the fuel filler neck without removing the fender. Warranty charge on that was 3.9 hours.
Neilda
GT Owner
gwb, I'm not sure if you picked up on my report on the Le Mans weekend that one of our drivers lost his flange bolts. The Roush mechanic changed the bolts on the roadside in 25 minutes. Nearly 3 hours labor sounds like 2 hours profit.
gwbartlett
GT Owner
My guess is that the Roush guy has done this procedure many times. This was the first time for the McCoy Ford technician. And it is the warranty time that Ford allows to do this. The last time it was in for the returning check engine light he spent 3 hours trying to find the fault and they paid .5 hours. It is back with him this morning for yet another check engine light. I hope that it is not the fuel tank. I am not complaining-this is the best car I have ever owned and my local dealer has been outstanding. Compaired to the last 911 Turbo that I owned (2003 my) these minor problems are nothing!
Neal, I have to be in London every month. Would you like to get together for lunch the next time I am there, maybe at the RAC?
Neal, I have to be in London every month. Would you like to get together for lunch the next time I am there, maybe at the RAC?
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Neilda
GT Owner
rickisapilot
GT Owner
- May 11, 2006
- 63
Neilda said:
Neil, Did Roush look at your car and give you any assesment re your halfshafts & those "gaps" that everyone seems to have? Any recommendations or further info re the failue of these retaining bolts?
BTW - I get to London occassionally (airline pilot) and it would be fun to get together for GT talk, etc. What are the chances that you'd like to bring your GT over to the Hilton Metropole on Edgeware sometime? :cheers
----Rick
Neilda
GT Owner
Hi Rick - yes Roush did look at the halfshafts and reported everything as being normal. It was impossible for them to predict (of course) if the retaining bolts would ever fail so I asked them to remove the bolts and replace them with new bolts and with a hardened washer behind them (someone here had usefully posted that they found the factory fit washers to be soft/unhardened - sorry for not remembering who that was, but thank you), in addition to correctly torque and locktight the retaining bolts. Takes breath and apologises for punctuation! I regarded this as some form of preventative surgery given that next week I start my 3 week tour with the GT through France.
I also changed the oil (2,000 miles on car at that time) and fitted the transaxle cooler which appears to have stopped the venting.
It seemed to me that the softer washers could be (I stress could be) the reason that the retaining bolts back off, as they would not keep the torque.
I have to admit to not bringing the GT into central London - we have a disease in London called WVM (or white van man), white being the color of his van. WVM is usually a delivery driver of some sort and does not give a f*ck about anyone else on the road. His van bears testament to his attitude with the scars of many encounters. Allied closely to this disease is the unfortunate fact that most roads in London were built to carry a horse and cart. I have brought my Astons in to London from time to time and WVM has caused near cardiac arrest as he cuts up my priceless machinery in heavy traffic - knowing I'll give way as the expensive and gossamer thin aluminium is no match for his rusty steel! A rather lengthy way of saying 'no way Jose'!
I'm always around for a GT chat over a pint - so PM me if you're ever in this neck of the woods....
Neil
I also changed the oil (2,000 miles on car at that time) and fitted the transaxle cooler which appears to have stopped the venting.
It seemed to me that the softer washers could be (I stress could be) the reason that the retaining bolts back off, as they would not keep the torque.
I have to admit to not bringing the GT into central London - we have a disease in London called WVM (or white van man), white being the color of his van. WVM is usually a delivery driver of some sort and does not give a f*ck about anyone else on the road. His van bears testament to his attitude with the scars of many encounters. Allied closely to this disease is the unfortunate fact that most roads in London were built to carry a horse and cart. I have brought my Astons in to London from time to time and WVM has caused near cardiac arrest as he cuts up my priceless machinery in heavy traffic - knowing I'll give way as the expensive and gossamer thin aluminium is no match for his rusty steel! A rather lengthy way of saying 'no way Jose'!
I'm always around for a GT chat over a pint - so PM me if you're ever in this neck of the woods....
Neil
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