Billet crank for the GT?
- Thread starter Jason Watt
- Start date
2112
Blue/white 06'
2112
Blue/white 06'
I have 4 Bryant cranks made from SVO American forgings, not billet. (600 inch motors) I can't give you an exact cost for billet. What I can tell you is you are receiving the absolute highest quality.
I thought they had a cost calclator on their site?
Indy GT
Yea, I got one...too
Billet??
2112 brings up an interesting point.
It appears vogue these days to tagline everything with "billet" as if that means something generally accepted and understood. According to Merriam-Webster there are a number of different definitions to this term. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/billet
Usually crankshafts are either made from "cast" steel (low specific power engines) or "forged" steel for high power, high performance engines. I struggle to understand how the term "billet" is an accurate or understandable term applied to a ferrous (steel) crankshaft.:confused
Any of you engine builders who use these crankshafts in engine builds all the time care to explain how this term applies? I really just do not see how a billet
crankshaft relates (I believe the intended value) to a forged crankshaft.
2112 brings up an interesting point.
It appears vogue these days to tagline everything with "billet" as if that means something generally accepted and understood. According to Merriam-Webster there are a number of different definitions to this term. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/billet
Usually crankshafts are either made from "cast" steel (low specific power engines) or "forged" steel for high power, high performance engines. I struggle to understand how the term "billet" is an accurate or understandable term applied to a ferrous (steel) crankshaft.:confused
Any of you engine builders who use these crankshafts in engine builds all the time care to explain how this term applies? I really just do not see how a billet
crankshaft relates (I believe the intended value) to a forged crankshaft.
2112
Blue/white 06'
I believe they are milled from a solid billet block of steel.
I trust my SVO Forgings implicitly.
I trust my SVO Forgings implicitly.
BlackICE
GT Owner
This is the definition:
a : a bar of metal
But usually a rod or cylinder. The term itself doesn't tell you what kind of metal was used to form the billet, or if the metal was hot rolled, cold rolled, forged or other.
IMO billet is a buzzword marketing term to sway people into believing it is of the highest quality, when it fact it isn't usually so. It just that is is of the highest quality since no one wants to forged a custom crank.
Clearly a quality steel billet machined into a crank is probably better than a cast iron crank, or even some forged cranks of poorer quality steel. However IMO a high quality forged crank can best a billet crank, but forging is more expensive for low production numbers. Can't wait until someone finds out how to market powered metal cranks as the next in thing. How about some billet steel cranks made from hot rolled low carbon steel from a mill in China recycling scrap metal.
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Fubar
Totally ****** Up
Billet means that magical forces have been brought to bare on the material (usually real dragons are used to heat the material before the Keebler elves dip it in fudge). If you are using the highest quality billet forging process, then you can bet the bank that Yoda or some other high ranking Jedi has had a hand in shaping the part after the Keebler boys are done.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
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BlackICE
GT Owner
twobjshelbys
GT Owner
So is the term "billet" overloaded in normal usage? I'd always thought of "billet" as a block of aluminum and that the iron equivalent was "forged". So I was trying to figure out what magic floobie dust had been applied to make an aluminum crankshaft. Just trying to sort out the dictionary.
Fubar
Totally ****** Up
not as much fun but this might add clarification (for those with no imagination):
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/billet-c.htm
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/billet-c.htm
2112
Blue/white 06'
Yup,
Just like there are forged and billet aluminum wheels, there are forged and billet steel cranks.
But I am guessing your post is along the lines of Mark's. :cheers
Bryant is one of the best, if not the all out best. He bought out all the big block Forgings from SVO when they decided to get out of that game. Which is a good thing.
I agree with Clinton and prefer forged, if you can find it.
Mullet
FORD GT OWNER
Xcentric
GT Owner
What you're buying is the man's reputation for quality, not the word "billet."
Forging is only economic in large quantities. You machine a billet when you can't invest a gazillion dollars in forging dies, because you're not producing a bazillion parts to amortize the tooling.
Billet steel doesn't have to be forgeable, so you have more alloying options.
Forged and billet parts both range in quality from crap to outstanding. Depends largely on the quality of the metal.
Forging is only economic in large quantities. You machine a billet when you can't invest a gazillion dollars in forging dies, because you're not producing a bazillion parts to amortize the tooling.
Billet steel doesn't have to be forgeable, so you have more alloying options.
Forged and billet parts both range in quality from crap to outstanding. Depends largely on the quality of the metal.
Indy GT
Yea, I got one...too
Thanks Mark! Now I have a much better appreciation of the difference.:biggrin
On a more serious note, your “victory library” link was very informative. Two notable quotes from their discussion-
“Structural motor parts such as crankshafts and connecting rods are frequently described by their method of fabrication: billet, cast or forged. Much confusion, some of it intentional, surrounds the differences between these methods, and the their advantages and weaknesses.”
“In sales terms, “billet” usually means “you don’t understand the term, so we’ll pretend it’s better, when actually it’s just cheaper for us to make”.”
For a crankshaft/connecting rod application, I would think it best to stay with a “forged” shaping process to get the desirable grain flow strengthening and consolidated internal material structure characteristics. As the article points out starting out with a huge block of material (of unknown or undocumented processing) and CNC machining out a shape may or may not capture the grain flow characteristics of the block as it was formed.
NorthwoodGT
GT Owner
Indy GT- I thought I was the only person who thinks the verbage is very vague on terminology on cranks. you should read threads about cranks on the SVT Cobra forums. I never read so much B.S. in my life and learned not to try and correct anyone because they are all experts from what I can tell. you are so right with the term "billet" . it has taken on a whole now meaning on the internet from it's original intent and description. jmo