Any one buy a GT with no intention to register the car?

[HHGT]

Any one buy a GT with no intention to register the car?

I just bought my second GT - a Heritage, the first a Red/White. I drove 1660 miles from So Cal to Bowdle South Dakota and picked the car myself in a covered trailer that I purchased from AwsumGT. Did the round trip in 3 1/2 days with a buddy of mine with an experience of a lifetime and stories to tell. It really is mostly about the hunt. I got it for a significant amount under MSRP.

The town of Bowdle SD has a population of 569 people. The dealer won the car through the Ford Lottery. The purchase literally took 30 Minutes and we loaded the car in 15 minutes. We stayed at the local Bed & Breakfast - 6 rooms and 2 public bathrooms. The plumber is the fireman and the Vet is the doctor - No Sherieff. The phone book was one page and the ratio of Cows to Humans was 50:1 - Winter will increase the population to 571. The restuarant had one steak which they served to the dealer's mom one hour prior to us getting there.

We encounterd Dozens of Suicide Deer, dead racoons by the dozns and hit a skunk 10 minutes after we headed back - IT STUNK! There was a stretch of highway where we did not see a human being for nearly 5 hours - with no cell reception - scarry, real scarry.

I purchased the car and the dealer gave me the MSO - unsigned. He did sign a photo copy of teh MSO and gave me a contract and a bill of sale. I am contemplating not registering the vehicle in the state of California where I reside. I insured the car and the Allstate agent did not care whether it was registered or not. Another local buddy of mine owns a Ford dealership and he did the PDI on the car. The car has 1.9 miles on it. BTW all the lugnuts were impropery torqued to 60 from the factory and all the tires were low on air - otherwise everything checked out okay. BTW the car came with 2 window stickers - sam vin# butother info is slightly different.

The $69 question is what opinions/advice/reccomendations do you have on keeping the vehicle unregistered/untitled/Cert of Non operation and what happens if you drive it and you get cited. Also, if any of you reside in CA but own residences in NV & AZ, do you have any creative ideas?

Finally, any one buy a GT and got an unsigned MSO and what are the ramifcations?

Thanks in advance..

Sam

2006 Red/Wht All Options - Modded for spirited driving/track
2006 Heritage All Options - For Keeps

 

[PILOTJPW1]

Yea, that can be done, but the question is what to do for tags? I have a 59 T-bird still on the Cerificate of origin, and the invoice also. A title will work in your favor if your car disappears also.

Bet you get some funny looks at motor vehicles in 20 years or so when you try and title it though.

But yes I would want it signed for sure!!

 

[TEXAS GT]

Finally, any one buy a GT and got an unsigned MSO and what are the ramifcations?

Thanks in advance..

Sam

2006 Red/Wht All Options - Modded for spirited driving/track
2006 Heritage All Options - For Keeps

I can't speak for other states, but in Texas if the MSO is not signed off on the back by the dealer you got it from, it still belongs to him. The bill of sale is nice to prove you bought it but you can't transfer ownership to yourself or anyone else until he signs off the MSO. You may be heading for title hell several years down the road if you ever need to sell it or register it.

Just to protect myself, I'd have the dealer sign it but leave the buyer portion blank and undated. That way, when you sell it or register it, you can just fill in your name or the buyers name and take it to the courthouse.

I can also think of other potential problems depending on the state you try to register it in but nobody can say for sure until you try.

I think I'd do it by the rules now (and register it to myself) so I didn't have a nightmare later. I don't think "being still on the MSO" will add to the value anyway. Your big advantage will be the fact that there won't be too many GTs with 5 miles on them several years from now. If someone wants one like that they won't care if it's titled or not.

I'm sure the real issue here is spending the extra 10 grand or so in taxes and I don't blame you. That will cut into your future profits (if any) but Uncle Sam makes it very hard to dodge that bullet. Bummer. :frown

 

[BH1]

The bigger issue is that most dealers cannot transfer the MSO to a non-dealer without incurring the obligation to collect sales tax by the state department of revenue. Getting a dealer to sign the MSO will probably be impossible because if he were to be audited he could potentially be on the hook for the sales tax if you subsequently sold it to another person without ever paying the sales tax on your purchase.... and we are talking a pretty substantial chunk of cheddah here!!! I feel your pain... my soon to be car is on an MSO and I am gonna have to bite thge bullet. I am an attorney and have been working on getting a dealer's license for a few months now... what a pain in the arse.

 

[ROCMAN]

Like said before, the MSO needs to be signed. Just leave the buyer portion clear. The dealer can give it to you, mine did. Sales tax is collected if you reside in the selling state. The dealer probably has all the info he needs to protect himself from his state controllers office. I am not sure how long you can keep the car on MSO legally, so I know of a lot of cars that are OLD, and solid as a new with the MSO. You will not be able to get a non-op without giving up the MSO. You risk getting it impounded if you drive it. You may want to consider getting a car dealers license, then you can drive it.

 

[HHGT]

The bigger issue is that most dealers cannot transfer the MSO to a non-dealer without incurring the obligation to collect sales tax by the state department of revenue. Getting a dealer to sign the MSO will probably be impossible because if he were to be audited he could potentially be on the hook for the sales tax if you subsequently sold it to another person without ever paying the sales tax on your purchase.... and we are talking a pretty substantial chunk of cheddah here!!! I feel your pain... my soon to be car is on an MSO and I am gonna have to bite thge bullet. I am an attorney and have been working on getting a dealer's license for a few months now... what a pain in the arse.

I live in California and the dealer is in a tiny tiny town - scratch that - a village at best. Great people though! If an auditor ever went there I would be shocked. He did give me the MSO UNSIGNED. He did give me a signature on a copy of the MSO without putting my name down on the copy. I am getting concerned about not having it signed after everyones response. I do have a contract, Bill of sale and the signed copy of the MSO and posession of the car which I hope is still 9/10th's of the law. On a more serious note he offered for me to send the original back and he said he would sign it. What do you think?

What does it take to get a dealers license and wher eis the first place to inquire? Please don't say DMV. BTW if anyone wants a CA DMV telephone back line PM me - I got from a disgrunatal employee...

 

[scode]

I asked our biller about this a few weeks ago and she said that if the owner did not title the vehicle that they would inncour penalties down the road. One's that get larger as time goes bye. I asked her if that was a Michigan thing and she said that is a federal deal. That being said, she is a biller at a Ford dealership in Michigan, not a federal agent. Better safe than sorry. Take a picture of the MSO to document it. If you don't have a Dealer plate, you would not be able to enjoy it anyway.

 

[ROCMAN]

Speaking of penalties, my regristration cost me $2K more than it should have. I asked why, and the DMV lady said because I took so long. I waited 6 months to register it. :ack

 

[BlackICE]

I am in CA and if I recall correctly you have a time limit of 15 days to register your car once it is brought into the state. Now that doesn't apply to you if CA is not the 1st state you will register your car in. Since you have other states that you can choose register your car. You can store the car in CA for 10 years, bring it into another state and register it. Now that is my layman's opinion and is not legal advice and I may be completely wrong.

Also as state before I think in any state you will need a signed MSO.

Check out www.dmw.ca.gov for the registration forms.

BlackICE

 

[BH1]

I live in California and the dealer is in a tiny tiny town - scratch that - a village at best. Great people though! If an auditor ever went there I would be shocked. He did give me the MSO UNSIGNED. He did give me a signature on a copy of the MSO without putting my name down on the copy. I am getting concerned about not having it signed after everyones response. I do have a contract, Bill of sale and the signed copy of the MSO and posession of the car which I hope is still 9/10th's of the law. On a more serious note he offered for me to send the original back and he said he would sign it. What do you think?

What does it take to get a dealers license and wher eis the first place to inquire? Please don't say DMV. BTW if anyone wants a CA DMV telephone back line PM me - I got from a disgrunatal employee...

I am not going to bore you with a lesson in secured transactions but....... If your dealer happens to floor plan his vehicles or use his inventory as collateral on his operating capital and he doesnt transfer the ownership to you at time of sale you could be exposed if he were to end up in litigation with his bank. Technically vehicles are covered by a "race to the courthouse" lien recording section of the UCC, which means posession doesnt mean chit its whose name the titling documents are in and who has the ability to encumber them and when they do it. An example would be this.... Dealer sells you your GT, collects the $$ and releases the car to you. You dont want to pay tax so you tell him to just sign the MSO with buyer blank. You park the car in your living room under lights and climate control and sit in anticipation of Barrett-Jackson in 30 years. In the mean time dealer is going through a divorce/ having financial issues/ goes out of trust with his floor plan company and needs to generate $$ to save his arse..... guess what?? The Gt is still an asset that can be attached or used as collateral. He figures that he will bail himself out real quick and that you wont know the difference so he gets a duplicate MSO and encumbers it, the lien holder goes to the courthouse and records the lien with a UCC filing..... guess what.... the lien holder may come get the car in a default and your only remedy is to sue the seller (who is already in financial trouble). There has to be an assignment and proper documentation to be safe. $160k is no chump change. I know that none of you would buy a house and hand over the cash and say "we will have a closing and title search later".........

 

[Fubar]

I wouldn't leave it blank unless you only plan to own the car for a short period. If you go though cars like prune pudding though an old man, then leave the title open, if this one is a keeper then put your name on it and mark your territory. Don't pee on it though.

 

[Neilda]

Lot's of good advice there - I'm unsure of the relevant laws.

However I greatly enjoyed the story of picking it up - seems crazy that the Ford lottery system results in dealers in the middle of nowhere ending up with GT's on the forecourts!

 

[B O N Y]

I am not going to bore you with a lesson in secured transactions but....... If your dealer happens to floor plan his vehicles or use his inventory as collateral on his operating capital and he doesnt transfer the ownership to you at time of sale you could be exposed if he were to end up in litigation with his bank. Technically vehicles are covered by a "race to the courthouse" lien recording section of the UCC, which means posession doesnt mean chit its whose name the titling documents are in and who has the ability to encumber them and when they do it. An example would be this.... Dealer sells you your GT, collects the $$ and releases the car to you. You dont want to pay tax so you tell him to just sign the MSO with buyer blank. You park the car in your living room under lights and climate control and sit in anticipation of Barrett-Jackson in 30 years. In the mean time dealer is going through a divorce/ having financial issues/ goes out of trust with his floor plan company and needs to generate $$ to save his arse..... guess what?? The Gt is still an asset that can be attached or used as collateral. He figures that he will bail himself out real quick and that you wont know the difference so he gets a duplicate MSO and encumbers it, the lien holder goes to the courthouse and records the lien with a UCC filing..... guess what.... the lien holder may come get the car in a default and your only remedy is to sue the seller (who is already in financial trouble). There has to be an assignment and proper documentation to be safe. $160k is no chump change. I know that none of you would buy a house and hand over the cash and say "we will have a closing and title search later".........

ass-o=lutely :biggrin

I own a home in Las Vegas, I have kept cars there. If you buy a car, keep it out of the state for at least one year, then bring it into California you beat the state tax.

That being said, you don't want to be caught with an unregistered car on the street.

I received a ticket years ago on a car I removed from the container in Long Beach and tried to drive with no plates whatsoever back to Fresno. Required a court appearance, I was able to document my story, but, had I had the car for any period of time I would have been nailed big time with tax and penalities.

Getting dealer plates requires that you do a certain number of transactions
and I am pretty sure have a venue dedicated to the same.

 

[ROCMAN]

Yes, you have to sell a car or 2 a year to keep it going. I think you can use your home address, if not, maybe your work address. I have a warehouse big enough for some cars, and if I ever decide to do it, that will be my address.
It's a great excuse to give to the wifey. "Honey, I need to buy a new car to keep my license". :lol

 

[BlackICE]

ass-o=lutely :biggrin
That being said, you don't want to be caught with an unregistered car on the street.

I received a ticket years ago on a car I removed from the container in Long Beach and tried to drive with no plates whatsoever back to Fresno. Required a court appearance, I was able to document my story, but, had I had the car for any period of time I would have been nailed big time with tax and penalities.

I took delivery of my GT from IN and drove it around a few miles, before taking into DMV to get a temp registration pending a smog test and inspection. I was told that you have 15 days to get the car registered with CA DMW once you bring the car into the state. It wasn't clear if that was implicit rights to drive the car before getting your temp permit, or that you should get the permit with the paperwork only and then you may drive the car. Maybe I just was lucky.

BlackICE

 

[B O N Y]

I took delivery of my GT from IN and drove it around a few miles, before taking into DMV to get a temp registration pending a smog test and inspection. I was told that you have 15 days to get the car registered with CA DMW once you bring the car into the state. It wasn't clear if that was implicit rights to drive the car before getting your temp permit, or that you should get the permit with the paperwork only and then you may drive the car. Maybe I just was lucky.

BlackICE

I am sure you got temp movement paper tags which normally give you 30 days to get registered in your state. Yup, California expects the car to be registered within 15 days from entering the state.