1966 Ford Gt40


thrashdu2002

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2007
192
Fortuna,Ca
Maybe someone can enlighten me a little. When I was selling cars at Ford my manager told me that its called the Ford GT now rather than GT40 because someone had taken the name in the 60's and bought the name. So in the years to come when Ford decided to come back out with it they wanted to use GT40 but the guy that bought the name was demanding about $500,000.00 per car if Ford wanted to use the name.

is that true??

P.S. Ebay has a 1966 Ford GT40 thats really nice going for about $179,000.00 I think or maybe more.

Tanner
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,361
Washington State
'Story I heard was he wanted a million bucks lump payment (or whatever amount it was) for the rights to the GT40 name. Ford said, "Go to .......someone else."

But, ya, that basic situation (regardless of the specifics) is the reason FGT's are called FGT's 'steada GT40's.
 

B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 5, 2005
12,110
Fresno, Ca.
Safir offered Ford the rights to the trademark GT40 for $40m according to Ford.
Today the rights to the trademark are under license to High Tech of Port Elizabeth, S.A. who use it for the SUPERFORMANCE GT continuation car. This car also carries forward the serial numbers of the original Ford GT's.
 

06fordgt

GT
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Nov 8, 2006
1,908
Toronto Canada
I do not know the exact $ number that Safir wanted. Funny thing is the racing programme that started in 63/64 culminating with the 1,2,3 win in 1966 the car was actaulaly called the GT. The GT40 moniker came about through the press that started calling it the GT40 becuase it was only 40 inches high. The public picked up on it and the rest is history.
The real problem now is that most people if they haven't seen the car or it is not visible when talking about it, think that you are talking about the Mustang GT vs the true GT (GT40).
 

Quickdraw

pit crew chief
Dec 28, 2006
273
Bony's right, they wanted $40 million but I'd heard in addition they also wanted the first three GTs produced - one for each Safir partner. Ford walked away and later the owners of the GT40 name whined "that was just our initial asking price - we were willing to negotiate".
 

thrashdu2002

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2007
192
Fortuna,Ca
i cant believe how greedy people can be, thats so much money. why not ask for 10 million or 5 million. why do you need 40million. not like anyone with 40million has really done anything nice for anyone else with it.

thanks for all the info on the car though everyone. i had a lot of explaining to do when talking cars with people on the lot cause they thought i was talking about the ford mustang gt.most people are invisible to it and they dont even know what one is.

i heard that the new mustang bullitt was made by japan. sad to hear.
 

Ed Sims

GT Owner
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Apr 7, 2006
7,853
NorCal
GT40 trademark

In Axelrod, Winer & Wyss' book Ford GT40 & The New Ford GT they report it is an automotive press myth regarding the $40 million price tag for the GT40 name. The authors go on to state that Bob Wood of Safir tried to negotiate with Ford but Ford would not. They end the section on "The Name Game" with Safir discussing with Ford who owns the distinctive GT40 shape!

I'm not sure who's correct.

Ed
 

sr71

GT Owner
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May 22, 2007
513
Calgary, Great White
P.S. Ebay has a 1966 Ford GT40 thats really nice going for about $179,000.00 I think or maybe more.

Tanner

I believe the last original GT 40 sold went for well over a million. A significant race history would push that waaay up. I couldn't find anything on e-bay, but I would think it must have been a replica, although the price is high for a repro, or a new GT, which is not out of line at 179k for an asking price.
 

B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
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12,110
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Mr Wyss has proven that he is not credible.
 

cobraownr

GT Owner
Jul 16, 2007
90
Annapolis, MD
Bony's right, they wanted $40 million but I'd heard in addition they also wanted the first three GTs produced - one for each Safir partner. Ford walked away and later the owners of the GT40 name whined "that was just our initial asking price - we were willing to negotiate".

With due respect to BONY and others, the story that the individuals who purchased the rights to the "GT40" name from Safir in the UK held a gun to Ford's head and demanded a huge sum of money for the use of that name for the new Ford GT is incorrect. There were negotiations that ultimately did not prove successful in which $40M was an opening proposal. A proposal is not a demand. Characterizing the owners of Safir GT40 Spares as "whining" when the negotiations with Ford went south is a slur on three honest and sincere individuals and long time supporters of original GT40s and their owners who legitimately acquired the rights to the GT40 name and wanted to be compensated for Ford's use of it on the new car. What's wrong with that? Please see the following message that Bob Wood, one of the owners of Safir GT40 Spares in Ohio, posted on GT40s.com about this subject. Bob Wood can be reached at 513-672-8105 if anyone wants more information.

<<----- MESSAGE FROM BOB WOOD ----->>

Thank you for the impetus and the forum to tell the real story! We have told several publications the true story, all of which have Ford as a major advertiser. We feel that we will never get a fair deal with any of the automotive periodicals.

I will begin with two statements that are absolutely true. We never demanded any amount of money from Ford, never demanded $40 million, and the Ford Motor Company never made Safir an offer to evaluate. That being stated, one must understand that Ford was unwilling to spend any real money to buy the trademark.

Ford never registered the "GT40" word mark. Peter Thorp did in 1985 to make his MkVs the only legitimate GT40s with the name and successive serial numbers. In 1995 a toy company approached Ford to make a model of the GT40, and Ford realized at that time that they did not have any rights to the GT40 mark. Peter Thorp granted Ford the right to register a "GT40" mark for a different class of products (toys), which registration he could have opposed as it was a "GT40" model of his "GT40" cars. He allowed Ford to do so for no charge. Ford agreed never to interfere with Safir's registration or use of the "GT40" mark for full size automobiles.

When Ford decided to make the GT40 Concept into a production vehicle, Ford asked us (Safir) what we wanted for the mark to sell it to Ford, not just license it. We knew that Ford charges 7.5% of the retail price of a product to license the Blue Oval. We suggested that we begin our negotiations at that level, and that number was in fact $40million. For said that that was out of the question. We then asked Ford to make us an offer. Ford said that they did not want to make us an offer that we would not accept (?); essentially asking us to bid against ourselves! We said that we would take $25million. They laughed and we laughed, and then Ford said, "Seriously, what do you want?" We said, "Seriously,you make us the offer." For never would make us an offer in writing. Several things were suggested for which we asked a written offer. Tom Scarpello of Ford would never put anything in writing.

We told young Keith Crane (K.C.), son of Keith Crane owner Crane publications, just as above. It was K.C. Crane who printed the words "demanded", "bombshell" and that things got "ugly". We never demanded, it was never a bombshell, and we communicated with Ford for three months begging Ford for an offer. Ford for three months kept telling us that the "market equation" which they used to determine how many more cars they would sell as "GT40" vs. "Ford GT" would not justify spending much money on the trademark. Scarpello told us that the trademark was worth only that which we paid for the Safir assets which included the mark;he asked what did we pay $10,000, $15.000, $25,000. Ford never made us an offer, we never demanded any amount, much less the $40million tale, and K.C. Crane published something that was very misleading. It made us look very bad, and Ford the injured party. Ford did not care about the trademark.

We have heard from within Ford that we were offered the first and last car and $5million (Scarpello told that to a group of Ford enthusiasts gathered at a luncheon; he knew that it was not true), that we were offered $1million and a car each (Neil Ressler told me that himself) and that we would not take it, and that we were impossible to deal with. None of which is true.

We were only approached by Automotive News Weekly (K.C.Crane) for our side of the story. K.C.Crane mislead the readers with his wording. No other publication, no other publication, no other publication asked us for the story. DBLDREW links readers to Road and Track who never contacted us. The R&T article is just the same B.S. that R&T got from the Crane article. This is true for every article that has been written, except for articles that were written by Jim Mateja if the Chicago Tribune whom we subsequently contacted, and who wrote the true story. However, that story received little press when compared to the Crane story.

We would deserve the derogatory comments ( "gents" ((above)), "hosers", etc.) which we have been called if in fact there were any truth to the "offers" from Ford. We would have been idiots to have turned down millions of dollars and new cars, and we would not have had they been offered.

The shape is not in the public domain. A tenet of trademark law establishes that if a visual image conjures in one's mind a word mark, then the two are deemed to be one and the same. Does anyone look at a GT40 shaped car and think of anything other than "GT40"? Each mark is able to be registered.
Think of a winged red horse...Mobile Oil?

Thank you for reading! There is more to the story which will be published in the forth-coming Shelby World Registry. As Don S. has written, anyone can call me, and I will be happy to elborate. This is a great site, Ron. Thank you for the forum!

Bob Wood

07-12-06, 04:09 PM
 

cobraownr

GT Owner
Jul 16, 2007
90
Annapolis, MD
I believe the last original GT 40 sold went for well over a million. A significant race history would push that waaay up. I couldn't find anything on e-bay, but I would think it must have been a replica, although the price is high for a repro, or a new GT, which is not out of line at 179k for an asking price.

Original GT40 Mk I road cars with no period race history are currently in the $1.5-$2.0 million range. Mk I race coupes with modest race history are $2.0-$3.0. Chassis 1084 that ran in just two races, one as a Gulf team car, was advertised for $5.5M last year. Mk II (big block) XGT-3, a Ford factory spare with no period race history, has been on the market for some time at over $3M. The highest price that I am aware of for an original GT40 that actually sold is $2.5M for 103, a very historic Shelby team car that won Daytona in 1965. This was sold at auction a few years go.
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,773
Scottsdale, Arizona
Hog.

Gentlemen,

One of my lifelong friends was on Ford's National Dealer Council at the time the Ford GT program was getting fired up. When shown pictures of the yellow GT40 prototype Ford Motor Company executives told him that production cars would not be called GT40 because the owners of that copyrighted name wanted $10,000 per car which equates to $40,000,000 for the planned production run of 4000 cars over two years. A most unreasonable monetary demand to use what was essentially a slang term for the original Ford GTs. (the "GT40" name as it applies to the original Ford GT is akin to the slang term "Hog" as regards Harley-Davidson motorcycles) This led to the immediate cessation of negotiations essentially telling Safier Spares to pound sand. While the name GT40 would certainly result in less confusion while discussing these cars, "Ford GT is the proper name for the automobile" according to the Ford executive speaking that day.

Chip
 

Jim H

Member
Nov 27, 2006
21
Florida, Tampa Bay
They should have called it a "GT 44"

I believe the Ford GT's are 44 inches tall...
 

Gulf GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 9, 2006
1,539
California
Very insightful post. This great and what "Forums" are for!
 

B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 5, 2005
12,110
Fresno, Ca.
Good post, interesting to get Safir's point of view. Thanks for sharing it. Clearly, none of us sat in on the negociations.
 

SteveA

GT Owner/B.O.D
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 13, 2005
3,694
Sandpoint Id
Good post, interesting to get Safir's point of view. Thanks for sharing it. Clearly, none of us sat in on the negociations.

+1:thumbsup
 

GT Tech

Ford GT Team Alumni
Aug 13, 2006
678
Kingman, Arizona
I have heard all the different stories about using the name GT40 vs. GT. As Bony has said, none of us were in on the meetings,(as far as we know) and will likely never know the actual story.

What I can say for sure is that when I went on the GT program:)banana), it was drilled into our heads that the car was a GT, NOT a GT40.
 

Fast Freddy

GPS'D 225 MPH
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 5, 2005
2,685
Avondale, Arizona
LOLA designed the original ford GT40's body. Shelby designed the drivetrain.

they should have named the new ford GT...... the GT44 because it is close to 44 inches tall as opposed to 40 inches tall. then they could have built 3 different cars with various levels of power and performance. a GT44, a GT 44 Special and a GT 44 MAGNUM. the GT44 would be stock, the GT44 Special comes with a whipple and the GT44 MAGNUM comes with twin turbos.
 

Fast Freddy

GPS'D 225 MPH
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 5, 2005
2,685
Avondale, Arizona
Original GT40 Mk I road cars with no period race history are currently in the $1.5-$2.0 million range. Mk I race coupes with modest race history are $2.0-$3.0. Chassis 1084 that ran in just two races, one as a Gulf team car, was advertised for $5.5M last year. Mk II (big block) XGT-3, a Ford factory spare with no period race history, has been on the market for some time at over $3M. The highest price that I am aware of for an original GT40 that actually sold is $2.5M for 103, a very historic Shelby team car that won Daytona in 1965. This was sold at auction a few years go.

i see that you used to own an original 1960's cobra. can you tell me how many cobras were made and how many of those were 427's? also if you can tell me what years cobra's were made in the 60's?
 

Daltondavid

GT Owner
Jun 22, 2007
46
Garnet Valley, Pa.
i see that you used to own an original 1960's cobra. can you tell me how many cobras were made and how many of those were 427's? also if you can tell me what years cobra's were made in the 60's?
Small Block Cobra production started in 1962 - 1965 with roughly 675 cars being produced. 260 powered and with transverse mounted Leaf spring front suspension and a worm and sector steering system they then went to 289 power after about 75 cars I believe (SAAC Registry not handy, working off memory) and I think after 175 cars they went to a rack and pinion system. the 427-428 COBRA's were made from 1965-1967 with a total production run of 350 cars. many street COBRA's had 428 Police Interceptor engines in them as the cost of 427 Side Oilers were about triple that of a 428 P.I. engine.