Track day verdict…..Remove the top (GTX) and leave it on the street

[texasgt]

Reading that another Owner had decided not to install the transaxle cooler prompted me to write this. First let me say that I’m still convinced that the new Ford GT is one of the greatest cars ever. I think the designers have done an incredible job of balancing heritage, horsepower and technology to create a fantastic automobile. I am madly in love with the car and cannot imagine ever selling it.

I was very interested in the GTX roadster conversion, but was concerned about compromising the track performance of the car. I was torn between going the track route with R compound tires, 4 point harness, transaxle cooler, etc…. or going with the GTX.

After tracking the car in stock trim, I’m convinced that the GT is probably NOT the right car for hard core track use. Don’t get me wrong, it is beautifully balanced, has great brakes, is blindingly fast and the acceleration out of the corners is phenomenal. But unlike a Porsche GT3 or a Ferrari Challenge, it just doesn’t feel like a race car. A GT3, or Ferrari Challenge, on the track just has a visceral appeal, like a wild animal, that the Ford doesn’t seem to have. It feels like a nuclear powered appliance, almost sterile in its efficiency.

Certainly it could be made into a fire breathing track car, but in doing so I think you would lose some of its best traits. I’m not sure the supercharged engine would ever be really at home on a road course, compared to a higher revving motor, but on the street the torque and response of the blown motor are fabulous.

Anyway, I think I’m going to go ahead with the GTX, and not do the transaxle cooler, Rcompound tires, 4point….

Anyone here on the list for a GTX??

Mark

 

[SteveA]

Did you read the artical last year I think in R&T where they raced those three exact cars on and off a closed course?

 

[Neilda]

Mark, I think that's an extremely accurate description. I'd be tempted to agree with you on every count. Particularly the nuclear powered efficiency bit - I described it in an earlier post today (comparing it to the Murcielago) as being less snappy in acceleration, more like the hand of God!

If I lived in the US, I'd be really very tempted by the GTX conversion - please do keep us all posted.

 

[wonkawonka]

I was just telling a friend last night as we were walking to a restaurant that the GT is the first car that ever scared me. Not because it's snappy quick and fast, but because there seems to be absolutely no end to its power. You press the gas pedal and then keep shifting gears, and by the time you reach 4th and "the hand of God" still has you pushing slightly down and (seemingly) slightly forward but with no end in sight, and the speedo is going 150 and climbing, and you go "Holy s##t!!!!"...

The Enzo on the other hand is insanely powerful but it's not the same thing. To start with, it's much much MUCH louder. The GT is so soft that you don't expect the insane well of power. With the Enzo, you know when the engine is going to yank you (4000 and above, if I remember correctly). So when you drive the Enzo, there's crazy respect for the car, but in a way there's more power feedback so it doesn't blow your mind.

I guess I can't explain it right....

I'm thinking I'll still install the transaxle cooler because the car may be in a very hot environment and I'll take every cooling I can get.

 

[saber]

That description is very true. The GT is very ordinary in the way it drives. It is amazing that this level of performance can be achieved without the rough edges (ride quality, road and engine noise, etc.) of other performance cars.

 

[Kirby Vieira]

track day verdict...

Mark,
Mark Gerisch (Genaddi Design Group) who is doing the GTX1 conversions for Ford, will be at Barrett-Jackson in Scottsdale next week where the car will be on display. It is there I plan to confirm the decision to have the conversion.
Kirby

 

[Neilda]

Wonka, you explained it alright! The difference between two cars of this type of performance is a very hard sensation to describe - really hard. But we understand exactly what you mean.

Maybe that's why I like the GT so much, it's very, um, what's the word? It could you lead you into the valley of temptation and by the time you got there, it would be way too late!! It so smooth, so uncomplicated, so much torque, so little drama - it just does it. The Italian exotics (which we all love to some degree or another) do alert you, from the moment you fire them up, they say 'LISTEN UP BYSTANDERS! There's going to be a show here, let's go'. The GT is very understated, 'everything's going to be OK, we can go fast, we can go slow, your call, there's no need to show off, we can go down to the shops or you can humiliate just about anyone on the road!'.

Ha! I love it!

What do my knowlegable friends on the other side of the pond know of the Shelby concept car? It teased us with some wonderful pictures (the aluminium concept shots) and now, no more. I doubt I'd want one now I have the GT, but it was damned pretty looking.

 

[dbk]

Your character description is completely correct, in my opinion. It's not that the GT won't pummel a 360 or GT3 around a track, it just doesn't have that visceral/on the edge feel a "race" car does. That can either be a good or bad thing, depending on what you want from a car. Track days only? I'm sure many would prefer a 360 CS or 430 CS. The GT is no Continental GT or SL65 of course, but it's almost insanely capable to a fault.

I remember once hearing the 996 TT described as an atomic-powered scalpel in a world full of manmade hatchets, and I think that analogy fits the GT well...

 

[barondw]

Once the top is removed you lose rigidity and cowl shake comes into the equation. You will need rollbars with an open car if you plan to track it at nearly any type of track day.

Most convertibles or open top cars weigh more than closed versions because of extra bracing which I do not believe will be in the GTX.

As to the trans axle cooler that is needed to keep tran temps below the critical point. You also need to do something to reduce engine coolant temps as they get to the critical 240 point very esaily.

Also the tires (tyres for Neil) need to be substantially upgraded as they do not work that well on the track. Don't forget better brake cooling.

A 5 or 6 point harness is a must for track days, 4 point are the bare minimum.

While I think your performance summary is correct I do not believe your anticpated course of action will improve performance on the track and may actually make it worse.

 

[texasgt]

Brandon, I agree completely. I didn't write very well, but I had been hesitant to do the GTX/Roadster conversion for just the reasons you listed.

Now that, for me, the car seems better suited to street use, I'm planning to go ahead with the roadster, leave the GT on the street, and save the track days for more visceral/less refined cars.

Once the top is removed you lose rigidity and cowl shake comes into the equation. You will need rollbars with an open car if you plan to track it at nearly any type of track day.

Most convertibles or open top cars weigh more than closed versions because of extra bracing which I do not believe will be in the GTX.

As to the trans axle cooler that is needed to keep tran temps below the critical point. You also need to do something to reduce engine coolant temps as they get to the critical 240 point very esaily.

Also the tires (tyres for Neil) need to be substantially upgraded as they do not work that well on the track. Don't forget better brake cooling.

A 5 or 6 point harness is a must for track days, 4 point are the bare minimum.

While I think your performance summary is correct I do not believe your anticpated course of action will improve performance on the track and may actually make it worse.

 

[kjslider]

I traded a number of emails with Mark Gerisch(Gennadi Design) last night regarding getting the GTX1 conversion. I'll be sending him a deposit today. Looks like there are already some 60+ folks ahead of me.

Besides the Roadster's stunning good looks, the fact that I'm 6'5" and live in perpetually sunny SoCal make the decision easy. What will I do with myself during the 4 weeks they need to transform the car...

-Kent

 

[AMB]

Gtx-1 Upgrade

I have a deposit for the GTX-1 upgrade #"23"!!! I have desided NOT to have it done, because, I plan to TRACK the GT and DOIN'T want to install a rollbar!!
If anybody wants to get the "GTX-1" upgrade #"23"; I will give the SPOT to them for the "DEPOSIT" !!!

AMB

 

[Kirby Vieira]

Gtx1

Congratulations, Kent. What is the color of your car?
Mark (texasgt), what's the color of the car you are having converted?
Who else on the forum is having the upgrade?
Mine is white with blue stripes.
Kirby

 

[kjslider]

Tungsten w/stripes.

-Kent

 

[AMB]

Gtx-1 Upgrade

Kent, will be upgrading his GTX-1 to my "#23", as I won't be getting the upgrade, because of the ROLLBAR requirement for TRACK use.

AMB

 

[Pipelion]

I love to read your posts(owners), especially.

I wouldn't put a blade to this car. Maybe a used one in a year or two, or if you can afford two GTs

Want a convertable buy a used Carrera GT.

Want a perfect track car, buy an Ariel Atom. They will be USA made very soon. The British prices were $30,000 for a 300hp/1200 lb car. You can drive it to the track. Less than a Ford GT engine and fast as snot.

Sorry but this is how I feel.

Keep posting owners we wanna bees are learning.

Allan

 

[Kirby Vieira]

Allan, you have to see the GTX1 in person to appreciate how gorgeous the GT can be as a Roadster, or T-Top, or Hardtop. It's not for everyone, but for some of us it's the only one.

 

[TEXAS GT]

I saw the GTX in Scottsdale and while I appreciate the engineering, I did not like the looks or the functionality. I've had ragtops and retracting hardtops but I soon discovered that it's usually either too hot, too cold or too rainy to ever use them. I understand that there are guys in certain parts of the country that don't have these problems as often as most of us but you are the exception. It could be a viable option for SoCal but I would think it would be of very limited usage in humid and hot Atlanta with this cars marginal A/C system. I also would worry about leaks when you wash it because of all the new seals and seams.

Like its been said before...just my two cents worth. :biggrin

 

[Kirby Vieira]

The diversity and commonality of GT owners is what makes this forum so special. I have 3 other roadsters in Atlanta. One is a convertible that has not had the top up since I drove from the dealer's lot last May. If it's too hot, too cold or rainy, my cars stay indoors. I log most of the miles in the Spring and Fall, but drive these roadsters year round. IMHO, Mark Gerish's skills and standards are so much higher than Ford's, or any other major manufacturer, that there will not be any quality or water leak issues with his conversion, but I'll let you know if I ever wash the car with the top on.

 

[Pipelion]

Kirby,

You make an excellent point, I haven't seen the car in person. I also wasn't crazy with their promo cars' color and graphics.

I agree a no top GT is cool. But I think it is such a classic, why mess with a winner.

Also, when a person buys a car, any car, it's his and they should do anything they want to.

For the movie LeMans they cut the top off a real GT40 for a camera car, chassis 1074 or 1076. Chassis 1075 won LeMans twice.

Allan :biggrin