Starting after months undriven


Neilda

GT Owner
Oct 19, 2005
3,559
London, UK
I know it's been discussed here before, but a recap would be useful at this time of year maybe!

I'm a believer in NOT starting the car every week over the winter, preferring instead to leave it charging and untouched.... (on the basis that starting cold introduces wear, so might as well introduce wear once rather than every week).

However, I think there was a routine posted some while back along the lines of having the throttle fully depressed when starting to pump oil around the system?

Would someone remind me?

Thanks.

N
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,361
Washington State
 

ViperJoe

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 17, 2006
1,305
Washington Crossing, PA
The thought of cranking the engine for 20 seconds just doesn't seem right. Could this result in premature starter/flywheel gear wear?
 
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nota4re

GT Owner
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Feb 15, 2006
4,194
Do it in two steps of 10-12 seconds each. Never had a problem with a GT doing this.
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
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Oct 18, 2006
1,361
Washington State
The though of cranking the engine for 20 seconds just doesn't seem right. Could this result in premature starter/flywheel gear wear?

'Probably could if you primed the car OFTEN. But, once a year? 'Not likely to be an issue. :wink :cheers
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
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Feb 13, 2006
5,773
Scottsdale, Arizona
Condensation and corrosion.

I'm a believer in NOT starting the car every week over the winter, preferring instead to leave it charging and untouched.... (on the basis that starting cold introduces wear, so might as well introduce wear once rather than every week).

Neil,

Your instinct to avoid starting a car and letting it run for a short while, once a week during the winter time is correct, but for the wrong reason. The biggest problem that occurs from starting a car, letting it idle for a short while, and then shutting it down, is corrosion and oil contamination with water. This problem is especially acute when humidity is high and the temperature the car is stored in is low. Unlike most automobile engines, aircraft engines are routinely hangered for long periods of time and proper procedures for such storage are well-known in the aviation community.

The amount of water that air is able to hold is directly proportional to the temperature of that air. When a piston engine is started it begins to warm up immediately. When it is shut down, the air temperature in the ventilated crankcase and in the cylinder's, rapidly rises to match the temperature of the surrounding metal (between 180° and 200°). Because that air is so much hotter than the surrounding air, it wicks moisture out of that surrounding air like a sponge. Then, as that high moisture content, hot air cools, it loses it's ability to contain that moisture, and condensation forms. Not just a trace amount of condensation, a lot of condensation.

It takes about 30 minutes of engine operation for the condensation in engine oil to evaporate. Aircraft engines that have been started once a week by well meaning owners without being flown are sometimes found to have an inch or more of water sitting in the bottom of their crankcases! The colder the outside temperature air is, the greater the water build up is when an engine is started and allowed to run for just a short period of time.

A visual example of this condensation process can be observed every time you make yourself a glass of iced tea. The surface of the glass rapidly cools to exactly 32°, matching the temperature of the liquid inside. If the temperature in your kitchen is 72°, the surrounding air will hold a lot of moisture. The air touching the surface of your 32° glass however, cools to the surface temperature of the glass and at that lower temperature it is unable to hold the moisture it easily contained at 72°. Condensation forms on the outside of the glass, leaving a wet ugly ring on your nice wood coffee table.

Another example is the vapor trail you see when a jet flies high overhead. The white streaks coming out of the jet engines that hang for a considerable period of time as long white lines in the sky, is not smoke. That white line is a cloud. The extremely cold air at that high altitude holds very little moisture. When that cold air passes through a jet engine, it immediately warms to well over 100° and rapidly wicks any available humidity out of the surrounding air. That hot humid air then rapidly chills and just as rapidly loses it's ability to hold that moisture. The frozen condensation that results forms the long thin cloud that will hang in the air for some time.

An iced tea glass with a temperature differential to the surrounding air of only 40° can generate a ton of condensation that you can see drain down on to your coffee table. The winter time temperature differential between the air inside your engine and the air outside your engine could be 180° or more. The amount of condensation water generated is huge. Again, this is no big deal if the engine is run for 30 minutes as that condensation will burn out and leave the engine. But a succession of starts with brief runs (heat cycles), will allow that water to continue to build up. It never evaporates because it sits underneath a thick layer of your engine oil (the water is heavier than the oil). And water is not a good engine lubricant, especially at startup.

This is probably a lot more than you wanted to know. I'll shut up now.

Cheers. :cheers

Chip
 
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PILOTJPW1

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 22, 2005
908
Maryland
Good timing!!

The blizzard of snow has melted enough I can now make it to my garage.

I fired her up today. My car has sat at least since Dec, 10 or so. The Ford included trickle charger did the job and she turned right over. Let it run for close to 30 minutes and cycled AC and rolled her off the flat spots.


I would imagine after we get a rain or two, Hope to be on the road soon.

:cheers
 

RALPHIE

GT Owner
Mar 1, 2007
7,278
I fire up my gal once each month during the winter months. I run at various rpm, not idling or at a constant level for about 30 minutes each time, watching the temperature gauge. I bring the engine temperature up to just over 200° F, then turn on the AC unit in order to turn on the radiator fans. I let the temp come down to the "normal" running temp of the car (~165-170° F). If I have her up on rear jacks, I will run part of the time in the gears (all of them) in order to exercise the transaxle shafts and fluid.

Just a regimin that I do - not a procedure recommended anywhere, but it seems to keep my gal happy.
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
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Feb 13, 2006
5,773
Scottsdale, Arizona
I fire up my gal once each month during the winter months. I run at various rpm, not idling or at a constant level for about 30 minutes each time........

30 minutes or more.......:thumbsup
 

Fubar

Totally ****** Up
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Aug 2, 2006
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Dallas, TX
I recommend you move to a warmer climate. 6 months without the GT is an unacceptable standard of living.
 
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Neilda

GT Owner
Oct 19, 2005
3,559
London, UK
Thanks for the link EP... :)

Chip, very interesting and useful information, I knew about the condensation issue and it was useful to have that condensed... if you'll forgive the pun!

Would you say that the engine/oil priming technique would be beneficial when starting the engine after a long period of non use?
 

RALPHIE

GT Owner
Mar 1, 2007
7,278
...Another example is the vapor trail you see when a jet flies high overhead. The white streaks coming out of the jet engines that hang for a considerable period of time as long white lines in the sky, is not smoke. That white line is a cloud. The extremely cold air at that high altitude holds very little moisture. When that cold air passes through a jet engine, it immediately warms to well over 100° and rapidly wicks any available humidity out of the surrounding air. That hot humid air then rapidly chills and just as rapidly loses it's ability to hold that moisture. The frozen condensation that results forms the long thin cloud that will hang in the air for some time....

Additionally, the burning of the Jet A and Jet B (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel) fuel adds CO2 and H2O to the exhaust. That H2O is very hot and condenses to water and ice crystals upon rapid cooling by the external ambient temperature at high altitude.
 
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ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
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Feb 13, 2006
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Scottsdale, Arizona
Turn & Burn.

Would you say that the engine/oil priming technique would be beneficial when starting the engine after a long period of non use?

Yes. If the car has been sitting for 2 months or more.

On my planes, if they have been sitting for months, I pull the prop through about 6 blades by hand before I get in. Then I crank the engine with the starter (magnitos off) for 10seconds. Then start.

Additionally, the burning of the Jet A and Jet B (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel) fuel adds CO2 and H2O to the exhaust. That H2O is very hot and condenses to water and ice crystals upon rapid cooling by the external ambient temperature at high altitude.

I didn't know there was any H2O in jet exhaust. Then again, I've never owned a jet. Pretty interesting, thanks Ralphie.

Chip
 

Apollo

GT Owner
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Aug 5, 2006
2,499
Pahrump, NV
Yes. If the car has been sitting for 2 months or more.

On my planes, if they have been sitting for months, I pull the prop through about 6 blades by hand before I get in. Then I crank the engine with the starter (magnitos off) for 10seconds. Then start.



I didn't know there was any H2O in jet exhaust. Then again, I've never owned a jet. Pretty interesting, thanks Ralphie.

Chip

I agree with Chip on this one. I think fuel systems, passage ways, and seals benefit from this also.
When I wasn't thinking clearly, I purchased a few of those products produced by Chuvitorleavit, ( Chevrolet). One was a nice older Camaro that had been left in storage with almost no miles. Every time I started up the car would have a cloud of blue smoke even though it was probably only a couple of drops that had leaked through. I had to pull the heads and replace valve guides because they dried out and cracked. It drove me crazy... so I pulled the heads and now start my less used cars, (motorcycles, generators, etc...) at least once a month.
I did always get the temp up to operating, but have not been doing it for a half hour. I will from now on...
Thanks Chip...:thumbsup
Terry
 
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Neilda

GT Owner
Oct 19, 2005
3,559
London, UK
Thanks Chip - I will definitely be going through this routine.... My car has not been started since November. :ack