My in-laws had the same experience with the Vega putt-putt they bought for an 'around town' errand-runner up in Vancouver, B.C. I don't suppose the area's steep hills and the never ending stop & go nor the constant shut off/start up helped the engine any.
jay Leno GT500 w/ Jamal
- Thread starter dbk
- Start date
My in-laws had the same experience with the Vega putt-putt they bought for an 'around town' errand-runner up in Vancouver, B.C. I don't suppose the area's steep hills and the never ending stop & go nor the constant shut off/start up helped the engine any.
twobjshelbys
GT Owner
No doubt. But then they'll mod on top. It'll be a matter of time before someone sends one to Hennessey for twin turbos and shows up at the Mile. It may have the power but it won't have the aerodynamics (as neither will the Camaro). My 2008 Mustang felt like driving a sheet of plywood into a hurricane and at about 145 when the hood started to flutter at the rear (windshield end) I decided that was enough.
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BlackICE
GT Owner
twobjshelbys
GT Owner
I'm sure the hood pins on the Shelby GT was the only thing that kept the hood attached. At least the front was held down.
I was suggesting that you might wanna install a pair at the rear of the hood to hold THAT part of it in place too! :biggrin
twobjshelbys
GT Owner
GT350 was 350 steps from the office to the shop. The GT500 was just > 350.
The modern GT500 did start at 500 HP. I don't know if that was on purpose or not.
The modern GT500 did start at 500 HP. I don't know if that was on purpose or not.
twobjshelbys
GT Owner
Yeah, I thought of that afterwards. Most racing hoods are 4 pins front and rear, and usually fiberglass. This was all stock. My point is that the new GT500 did some stuff. Note in the video that Jamal mentions the front is "closed" - no grille, so no air into the engine compartment that can't get out without the flow being that little slot between the hood and the windshield. I would like to see where they direct it though.
timcantwell
Le Mans 2010 Sponsor * Moderator
MTV8
GT Owner
I agree.
I think the best way to answer the durability question would be to see what Accufab does when asked for a record breaking engine build. Will they supply it with plasma spray coating or sleeves?
I'd bet the latter...if only because the block would have to be more rigid with the 'sleeves.
Wwabbit
GT Owner
FBA
GT Owner
Indy GT
Yea, I got one...too
Cool video, thanks for posting Dave!
And I agree with the others who favor sleeved cylinder liners. Call it old-school or just inherently conservative, I too, like liners. Although the Accufab question is very interesting, and would like to hear what he has to say. There is freedom however in purpose-built engines and the engine does not have any significant durability requirements other than short time runs.
The comparisons to the Vega "technology" of the early 70's however is not accurate. Utilization of an all aluminum block for that car line was totally different and relied on a high silicon block alloy in which the elemental aluminum was etched away in the cylinder bores to leave a high silicon wear surface for the rings to ride on. It was not a plasma spray operation as Ford now uses. Apples and oranges.
And I agree with the others who favor sleeved cylinder liners. Call it old-school or just inherently conservative, I too, like liners. Although the Accufab question is very interesting, and would like to hear what he has to say. There is freedom however in purpose-built engines and the engine does not have any significant durability requirements other than short time runs.
The comparisons to the Vega "technology" of the early 70's however is not accurate. Utilization of an all aluminum block for that car line was totally different and relied on a high silicon block alloy in which the elemental aluminum was etched away in the cylinder bores to leave a high silicon wear surface for the rings to ride on. It was not a plasma spray operation as Ford now uses. Apples and oranges.
'Fully agree!
I wasn't saying they were comparable/equal, Indy (I know they aren't)...only that the plasma spray conjured up the Vega image...for me anyway.
The other day I was talking about the 'spray with a friend of mine, and he mentioned that, unlike a sleeved block, if one has to BORE a plasma block - tough luck...the cyls can't be resprayed, so the block has to be TOSSED! :eek If that's true, it's all the more reason to go the sleeve route IMO.
:cheers
Jurassic Pockets
Indy GT
Yea, I got one...too
Empty, I agree with you and was not disparaging your Vega comparison per se, just informational for others.
This wear coat application debate has been around for years in the outboard motor regime as most all outborad blocks are aluminum for reduced transom weight. Most were sleeved but some manufacturers tried the plasma spray routine to further reduce weight/cost. If you want to over bore a sprayed block you are correct it takes a very special setup process to respray the wear surface (if it can be done at all).
I asked Jamal about warranty issues with a scored cylinder in the new (at that time 2011) 5.4 sleeveless GT500 block and he indicated that rather than warranty-scrap the block, Ford had a sleeve insertion fix whereby the block could be returned to service without having to replace the old block.
This wear coat application debate has been around for years in the outboard motor regime as most all outborad blocks are aluminum for reduced transom weight. Most were sleeved but some manufacturers tried the plasma spray routine to further reduce weight/cost. If you want to over bore a sprayed block you are correct it takes a very special setup process to respray the wear surface (if it can be done at all).
I asked Jamal about warranty issues with a scored cylinder in the new (at that time 2011) 5.4 sleeveless GT500 block and he indicated that rather than warranty-scrap the block, Ford had a sleeve insertion fix whereby the block could be returned to service without having to replace the old block.
Hmmmmmmm...it would seem that the sleeves ought to be there from the get-go then given all the possible hassle down the road. I don't 'get' the advantage one's supposed to garner from their removal anyway. It can't just be a weight savings benefit! 'Not enough weight there to worry about IMO! Save the weight somewhere else in the engine area if that's the case...like using a titanium cross member under the mill for instance.
Nope. No sleeves, I no want.
Persnickity Pockets
Nope. No sleeves, I no want.
Persnickity Pockets