Non BS reason for today's high gas prices.
- Thread starter ChipBeck
- Start date
californiacuda
GT Owner
- Oct 21, 2005
- 919
If you ponder for a moment the "real", down deep beliefs of the environmental movement (and most liberals).
Business (especially greedy white males) are bad, evil and destructive. If left unchecked, they will ruin the world for their own greed.
So, stop the evil ones, cripple their ability to do business. Use taxes, regulations, resource removal, anything possible to stop them.
Save the land, save the next generation, save the planet.
Can you afford not to?
Business (especially greedy white males) are bad, evil and destructive. If left unchecked, they will ruin the world for their own greed.
So, stop the evil ones, cripple their ability to do business. Use taxes, regulations, resource removal, anything possible to stop them.
Save the land, save the next generation, save the planet.
Can you afford not to?
GT 1547
GT Owner
I have a business that is involved on the exploration and development end of oil & natural gas industry (land surveying & civil engineering). Most of the areas where we work are on public lands ie: BLM, Forest Service etc. We are the first feet on the ground for any new project. The process of designing and permitting just one new well with a surface disturbance of 1-2 acres can take anywhere from 6 monthes to five years depending on which evironmental issues are encountered and the procedures required to mitigate those issues. Every new site must have an evironmental impact statement or at the very least an environmental assessment prepared where an area has already been covered by an environmental impact statement. Each site is required to cleared by an archaeologist, a paleontologist, a botanist, a biologist, a water resource specialist and various and sundry state and federal bureaucrats. Each individual is required to physically inspect any proposed surface disturbance and write and file a report with the appropriate agencies. This process is required even if you are in an existing oil or gas field and there are numerous existing wells within sight the proposed site and is very time consuming and expensive. If the new well is a "wildcat" in an undeveloped area the permit process is substantially more complex. At any time during this process the permit can be killed or postponed indefinitely by a lawsuit or the threat of a lawsuit by any evironmental wacko with enough money to pay postage. I work in it everyday and it is the livelyhood not only for my 30 employees but for our entire area (Eastern Utah, Western Colorado, Southern Wyoming) and I am still amazed that "Big Oil" even pursues energy development on public lands when it is so much faster and more economic to do so on private land or in countries where the environmental wacko crowd does not hold as much sway as here in the good ole US of A. Just my 2 cents on part of the reason domestic oil & gas production is down, energy prices are high and people are whining about our dependance on foriegn oil and gas supplies.
SteveA
GT Owner/B.O.D
Two things.
I own a manufacturing business in So Cal, we run 24hrs a day and see bills from So Cal Edison in the $17,500 to $20,000 per month range. Last year Edision sent me a matter of fact letter stating "We could agree to them turning off our power at their discretion with almost no notice (peak hours) or they will TRIPPLE my rates during the summer".???? So my choice is to either go outside to the money tree and pluck another $40,000+ per month or pass it on to the customer and watch another bunch move their purchasing overseas. Our wacked-out state congress won't allow (through the permit process) any new power plants here. So my elect. cost is up as well as my Workmans Comp is up, the EPA is up, EDD is up, our borders, schools, hospitals, welfare, police etc. are over run so taxes and fees are going up. I paid 10% state and 39% fed plus corporate taxes and as I drive home I listen to people on talk radio tell me I don't pay my fair share. When I tell those people I've had enough, the reward no longer out weighs the pain and I'm outta here, I'm called a bigot.:rofl California has one thing over all other states including FL., weather and weather is no longer enough! I'll buy a fricken jacket!
2nd
Plain and simple fact is no matter whos numbers you use, the State of Ca. makes more money per gallon than the the station owners and oil companies combined. We vote this tax money to go towards fixing/rebuilding roads and hwys but the majority winds up time and time again in the general fund. The State of Ca starts to make sense when you figure out it is no different than any other able bodied welfare recipient that dislikes every part of business except for the money it can extract from it.
Oh and one last thing. My wife is a CPA, works at the office full time and we also have a large outside firm do our taxes, corp. and personal. Question: How do you guys dodge your taxes and keep from paying your fair share cause I'm doing something very wrong.
I own a manufacturing business in So Cal, we run 24hrs a day and see bills from So Cal Edison in the $17,500 to $20,000 per month range. Last year Edision sent me a matter of fact letter stating "We could agree to them turning off our power at their discretion with almost no notice (peak hours) or they will TRIPPLE my rates during the summer".???? So my choice is to either go outside to the money tree and pluck another $40,000+ per month or pass it on to the customer and watch another bunch move their purchasing overseas. Our wacked-out state congress won't allow (through the permit process) any new power plants here. So my elect. cost is up as well as my Workmans Comp is up, the EPA is up, EDD is up, our borders, schools, hospitals, welfare, police etc. are over run so taxes and fees are going up. I paid 10% state and 39% fed plus corporate taxes and as I drive home I listen to people on talk radio tell me I don't pay my fair share. When I tell those people I've had enough, the reward no longer out weighs the pain and I'm outta here, I'm called a bigot.:rofl California has one thing over all other states including FL., weather and weather is no longer enough! I'll buy a fricken jacket!
2nd
Plain and simple fact is no matter whos numbers you use, the State of Ca. makes more money per gallon than the the station owners and oil companies combined. We vote this tax money to go towards fixing/rebuilding roads and hwys but the majority winds up time and time again in the general fund. The State of Ca starts to make sense when you figure out it is no different than any other able bodied welfare recipient that dislikes every part of business except for the money it can extract from it.
Oh and one last thing. My wife is a CPA, works at the office full time and we also have a large outside firm do our taxes, corp. and personal. Question: How do you guys dodge your taxes and keep from paying your fair share cause I'm doing something very wrong.
COPA Response
GT Forum Members,
In addition to my post on the GT forum, I put the same post up on the Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association website(COPA). I own and fly a Cirrus SR 22 aircraft. Quite a different response over there as many members thought I was being rude to liberal's, imagine that. I answered many of their questions and comments this morning with the following post. If you care to read it, I have copied and pasted my response to other Cirrus aircraft owners below.
Gentlemen,
As to the question, did I write this, yes, I wrote every word of that post. I just purchased some new speech recognition software and loaded it onto my computer called Dragon NaturallySpeaking 9. Writing this lengthy post by sitting at my computer and talking into a microphone gave me a chance to practice using it. It works pretty well and I wrote this post in about one fourth the amount of time it would've taken me to type it. Second, I love the subject of economics, as that's what I studied in graduate school at Arizona State University. The basic principles of economics are very well known, and we have 2000 years of recorded history that allow us to study the effects of various governmental policies. If people are given good information and have some understanding of the subject in question, they will collectively make good decisions. If however they are given no or bad information, and have no knowledge of the effects of similar policies implemented in the past, they can't help but make unwise decisions. If I have a disdain of liberal economic policy is only because such policies have failed every single time they have been tried over the last 20 centuries. If a particular type of aircraft had an accident rate 20 times higher than that of the fleet average, but the general public had no knowledge of this, many people would end up purchasing one thinking it to be a good deal. Those same people, when informed about the high accident rate, would make a better decision. State and local representatives have the authority to impose whatever rules they want, but every policy they implement carries with it a cost to their constituents. One might argue that the cost is worth it because of an environmental benefit, but one cannot argue that the cost does not exist.
As to the question about profit trends and why increased raw material prices don't squeeze profit margins, here's your answer. While US oil companies do not own all of their sources of raw materials, they do own many of them. If you own an oil field and the cost of oil doubles, your profit skyrockets. Most major US oil companies are vertically integrated, as they own everything from the oilfield to the tanker, refinery, and even some retail outlets. Unlike homebuilders or automakers, gasoline prices may change on an hourly basis quickly and easily.
As to the question of why have the people we elect not devised a policy to eliminate our dependence, here's your answer. That we control only a small percentage of the world oil supply is not an opinion, it is a fact. Combine this with another fact, the United States has 4% of the worlds population, and currently consumes 25% of the worlds oil. Oil is the engine of economic prosperity, and for most of the uses that we put it to there simply is no substitute. While it may not be possible for the United States to become energy independent, we certainly could become a lot more energy self-sufficient. But here again, economic ignorance and stupid choices stand in the way of that goal. We just elected a US Congress and Senate that has pledged to, not allow any offshore oil drilling anywhere in US waters, not allow inland oil drilling in most areas of the continental United States, and even to bar tapping the massive oilfield underneath the ugly frozen tundra that nobody ever visits in Anwar, Alaska. To complement the genius of these policies, they have also pledged to bar all future nuclear plant construction. Drilling for natural gas is also out of the question. They put in place environmental policies that effectively bar all future refinery and power plant construction. This done, these same elected US Congressmen will bemoan the fact that we are too dependent upon foreign sources of oil. By any intelligent measure, these are all stupid decisions made by economically ignorant people. Please note that I did not say stupid people or ignorant people. These same people, given better information, a better understanding of the economics involved, and how these decisions impact their personal finances, would make far wiser choices.
As to Warrin's post where he scratches his head over the basic theme of shortages and daily gasoline price changes, indicating there did not appear to be a shortage because no stations were out of gas, I reply...... that there are only two ways to allocate anything, with a price or with a line. As long as the price mechanism is free to work, all things will be available at all times, with the price fluctuating to balance supply and demand. From fine diamonds to concert tickets, no matter how limited the supply nor how high the demand, I can pick up the phone and buy them right now, at the market price. When a price is fixed, however, for example, $50 Rolling Stones tickets, a long line will form, tickets will sell out quickly, and then be completely unavailable.(barring scalpers, of course) In the 1970s, we tried government price controls on gasoline, I still have nightmares of the long lines at the gas pumps.
I found the most interesting responses to my post to be those that indicated that I was insulting liberals, that I should have more respect for the opinions of others, and that my post was a diatribe against the left wing and isn't that the group I'm trying to persuade? I have the same disdain for liberal economic policies that I have for flying a Cirrus in known icing conditions. A lot of experience exists that unquestionably proves that both practices are foolish and destructive. Please go back and read the diatribes against flying in known icing conditions posted here on this forum. COPA members had no tolerance and zero respect for the opinions of pilots who chose to fly their Cirrus in icing conditions. They called it stupid, insane, suicide, irresponsible, contemptible, and a whole lot more. Don't COPA members think their message would be more effective if they didn't include the diatribe against pilots who flew in icing conditions, isn't that the group you're trying to persuade? Well gentlemen, I think your responses were appropriate as regards flying in icing conditions. Sometimes the truth is harsh. What if Cirrus Design promoted their aircraft as a way to get places year-round and never mention the potential cost of flying IFR out of Duluth in January? If they only talked about the potential benefit of being able to get there without mentioning the potential cost of losing one's life in an icing accident. Would that be okay? Higher gas prices are not going to cost any of us our lives, but the principle remains the same. It is not an opinion that marketplace distortions carry with them a cost that we all must pay, it's a fact. It is not an opinion that if we don't drill for oil here in the US we must be more dependent upon foreign sources, it's a fact. It is not an opinion that if we force refiners to brew up over 100 different blends of gasoline and prevent the free flow of this commodity across the country as a result prices will be much higher, it's the fact. And while everybody is entitled to their own opinions, nobody is entitled to the wrong facts. Again, knowledge and information are key. If a pilot is uninformed and ignorant about the effects of icing on his aircraft, he may well choose to fly in such conditions. If an accident results, he may blame Cirrus Design for producing a faulty product. If the American public is uninformed and ignorant about the effects on fuel prices by blending requirements and other governmental actions, they cannot pressure their elected representatives to make better choices. They will instead, blame 100% of their high fuel prices on "those greedy oil companies".
All the best.
Chip Beck
GT Forum Members,
In addition to my post on the GT forum, I put the same post up on the Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association website(COPA). I own and fly a Cirrus SR 22 aircraft. Quite a different response over there as many members thought I was being rude to liberal's, imagine that. I answered many of their questions and comments this morning with the following post. If you care to read it, I have copied and pasted my response to other Cirrus aircraft owners below.
Gentlemen,
As to the question, did I write this, yes, I wrote every word of that post. I just purchased some new speech recognition software and loaded it onto my computer called Dragon NaturallySpeaking 9. Writing this lengthy post by sitting at my computer and talking into a microphone gave me a chance to practice using it. It works pretty well and I wrote this post in about one fourth the amount of time it would've taken me to type it. Second, I love the subject of economics, as that's what I studied in graduate school at Arizona State University. The basic principles of economics are very well known, and we have 2000 years of recorded history that allow us to study the effects of various governmental policies. If people are given good information and have some understanding of the subject in question, they will collectively make good decisions. If however they are given no or bad information, and have no knowledge of the effects of similar policies implemented in the past, they can't help but make unwise decisions. If I have a disdain of liberal economic policy is only because such policies have failed every single time they have been tried over the last 20 centuries. If a particular type of aircraft had an accident rate 20 times higher than that of the fleet average, but the general public had no knowledge of this, many people would end up purchasing one thinking it to be a good deal. Those same people, when informed about the high accident rate, would make a better decision. State and local representatives have the authority to impose whatever rules they want, but every policy they implement carries with it a cost to their constituents. One might argue that the cost is worth it because of an environmental benefit, but one cannot argue that the cost does not exist.
As to the question about profit trends and why increased raw material prices don't squeeze profit margins, here's your answer. While US oil companies do not own all of their sources of raw materials, they do own many of them. If you own an oil field and the cost of oil doubles, your profit skyrockets. Most major US oil companies are vertically integrated, as they own everything from the oilfield to the tanker, refinery, and even some retail outlets. Unlike homebuilders or automakers, gasoline prices may change on an hourly basis quickly and easily.
As to the question of why have the people we elect not devised a policy to eliminate our dependence, here's your answer. That we control only a small percentage of the world oil supply is not an opinion, it is a fact. Combine this with another fact, the United States has 4% of the worlds population, and currently consumes 25% of the worlds oil. Oil is the engine of economic prosperity, and for most of the uses that we put it to there simply is no substitute. While it may not be possible for the United States to become energy independent, we certainly could become a lot more energy self-sufficient. But here again, economic ignorance and stupid choices stand in the way of that goal. We just elected a US Congress and Senate that has pledged to, not allow any offshore oil drilling anywhere in US waters, not allow inland oil drilling in most areas of the continental United States, and even to bar tapping the massive oilfield underneath the ugly frozen tundra that nobody ever visits in Anwar, Alaska. To complement the genius of these policies, they have also pledged to bar all future nuclear plant construction. Drilling for natural gas is also out of the question. They put in place environmental policies that effectively bar all future refinery and power plant construction. This done, these same elected US Congressmen will bemoan the fact that we are too dependent upon foreign sources of oil. By any intelligent measure, these are all stupid decisions made by economically ignorant people. Please note that I did not say stupid people or ignorant people. These same people, given better information, a better understanding of the economics involved, and how these decisions impact their personal finances, would make far wiser choices.
As to Warrin's post where he scratches his head over the basic theme of shortages and daily gasoline price changes, indicating there did not appear to be a shortage because no stations were out of gas, I reply...... that there are only two ways to allocate anything, with a price or with a line. As long as the price mechanism is free to work, all things will be available at all times, with the price fluctuating to balance supply and demand. From fine diamonds to concert tickets, no matter how limited the supply nor how high the demand, I can pick up the phone and buy them right now, at the market price. When a price is fixed, however, for example, $50 Rolling Stones tickets, a long line will form, tickets will sell out quickly, and then be completely unavailable.(barring scalpers, of course) In the 1970s, we tried government price controls on gasoline, I still have nightmares of the long lines at the gas pumps.
I found the most interesting responses to my post to be those that indicated that I was insulting liberals, that I should have more respect for the opinions of others, and that my post was a diatribe against the left wing and isn't that the group I'm trying to persuade? I have the same disdain for liberal economic policies that I have for flying a Cirrus in known icing conditions. A lot of experience exists that unquestionably proves that both practices are foolish and destructive. Please go back and read the diatribes against flying in known icing conditions posted here on this forum. COPA members had no tolerance and zero respect for the opinions of pilots who chose to fly their Cirrus in icing conditions. They called it stupid, insane, suicide, irresponsible, contemptible, and a whole lot more. Don't COPA members think their message would be more effective if they didn't include the diatribe against pilots who flew in icing conditions, isn't that the group you're trying to persuade? Well gentlemen, I think your responses were appropriate as regards flying in icing conditions. Sometimes the truth is harsh. What if Cirrus Design promoted their aircraft as a way to get places year-round and never mention the potential cost of flying IFR out of Duluth in January? If they only talked about the potential benefit of being able to get there without mentioning the potential cost of losing one's life in an icing accident. Would that be okay? Higher gas prices are not going to cost any of us our lives, but the principle remains the same. It is not an opinion that marketplace distortions carry with them a cost that we all must pay, it's a fact. It is not an opinion that if we don't drill for oil here in the US we must be more dependent upon foreign sources, it's a fact. It is not an opinion that if we force refiners to brew up over 100 different blends of gasoline and prevent the free flow of this commodity across the country as a result prices will be much higher, it's the fact. And while everybody is entitled to their own opinions, nobody is entitled to the wrong facts. Again, knowledge and information are key. If a pilot is uninformed and ignorant about the effects of icing on his aircraft, he may well choose to fly in such conditions. If an accident results, he may blame Cirrus Design for producing a faulty product. If the American public is uninformed and ignorant about the effects on fuel prices by blending requirements and other governmental actions, they cannot pressure their elected representatives to make better choices. They will instead, blame 100% of their high fuel prices on "those greedy oil companies".
All the best.
Chip Beck
cmoody32
GT Owner
- Dec 8, 2006
- 536
This is nearly brilliant !!!!!!!!!!!!
Okay, here's the plan:
1. Back off and let those men who want to marry men,
& nbsp; marry men.
2. Allow those women who want to marry women, marry
women.
3. Allo w those folks who want to abort their babies,
abort their babies.
In three generations, there will be no Democrats.
WOW! I love it when a plan comes together!!!
Okay, here's the plan:
1. Back off and let those men who want to marry men,
& nbsp; marry men.
2. Allow those women who want to marry women, marry
women.
3. Allo w those folks who want to abort their babies,
abort their babies.
In three generations, there will be no Democrats.
WOW! I love it when a plan comes together!!!
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
Ya, but all the folks you mention will be (AND ARE BEING) replaced by a flood of illegals coming over our southern border ...so, unless THAT "supply" is dammed up, there will be a never ending supply of Democraps 'cause 75% of all immigrants (or more) tend to vote that way. (and THEY don't abort their babies...babies are their "anchors"!!)
Ya see? We're screwed no matter what...:bored
Last edited:
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
Yo, Steve, what you MENT to ask was, "How do you guys AVOID your taxes...
The difference between the two is about 20 years!:lol
And, don't ask ME. I mailed 'em a check this year the size of which almost gave me a heart attack. ('Coarse, I've come close to havin' one fillin' up my GT too ...so, keep that in mind!)
"I lose money on almost every gallon I sell."
In my town Super Fuels is at 2.96, Terribles, AM/PM, Maverick, Smiths are at 2.99. The poor Chevron owner on the corner with Smiths (up to .15 discount with groceries) and Maverick (.03 discount card) has a price of 3.28. I estimate his cost at 3.10 or so. You could literally lay in front of his pumps all day and not be in danger.
So that's the local situation. I'm with Exxon, and the rumor is that they(the local holder of the exxon rights) are trying to drive us all out of business so they can open up their own stores. So my cost is about .10 higher then the Chevron dealer for fuel. So when my cost was about 3.10 I set the price to 3.19. If someone uses a credit/debit card, it also cost me 2.2% more (on average), or about .06 a gallon. So as the price rises, I try to not increase it until I have too. So when my cost rose to 3.14 I was losing money on every gallon, but I didn't raise my price until my direct cost was 3.18 or so. So I wasn't losing money on cash sales, but I was on credit sales. So then I raised the price to 3.29. Was making a little. But for most of this year, have not made money on gas. But now prices have come down a little, so I am making a little money on the gross. I still of course have to pay insurance and maintenance and all the rest. It sucks being the highest price in town and still not making money on it, but not sure what else to do at this point.
Another fun part is the middle man between me and the oil company gets his .03 a gallon plus whatever other kickbacks he negotiates (1% for paying early, with my credit card money that he holds) and he doesn't even schedule the delivery. That is subcontracted out and I pay that cost too. His competitors want me to sign a 10 year contract and they can't/wont even tell me any of these cost up front.
In my town Super Fuels is at 2.96, Terribles, AM/PM, Maverick, Smiths are at 2.99. The poor Chevron owner on the corner with Smiths (up to .15 discount with groceries) and Maverick (.03 discount card) has a price of 3.28. I estimate his cost at 3.10 or so. You could literally lay in front of his pumps all day and not be in danger.
So that's the local situation. I'm with Exxon, and the rumor is that they(the local holder of the exxon rights) are trying to drive us all out of business so they can open up their own stores. So my cost is about .10 higher then the Chevron dealer for fuel. So when my cost was about 3.10 I set the price to 3.19. If someone uses a credit/debit card, it also cost me 2.2% more (on average), or about .06 a gallon. So as the price rises, I try to not increase it until I have too. So when my cost rose to 3.14 I was losing money on every gallon, but I didn't raise my price until my direct cost was 3.18 or so. So I wasn't losing money on cash sales, but I was on credit sales. So then I raised the price to 3.29. Was making a little. But for most of this year, have not made money on gas. But now prices have come down a little, so I am making a little money on the gross. I still of course have to pay insurance and maintenance and all the rest. It sucks being the highest price in town and still not making money on it, but not sure what else to do at this point.
Another fun part is the middle man between me and the oil company gets his .03 a gallon plus whatever other kickbacks he negotiates (1% for paying early, with my credit card money that he holds) and he doesn't even schedule the delivery. That is subcontracted out and I pay that cost too. His competitors want me to sign a 10 year contract and they can't/wont even tell me any of these cost up front.
SteveA
GT Owner/B.O.D
californiacuda
GT Owner
- Oct 21, 2005
- 919
SteveA, and GT1547, your stories and many like them make perfect sense to the liberal, anarchist, environmental nuts.
You are successful white men. You are evil. You must be stopped. Your business, your lifestyle, your way of being, must be stopped at all costs.
You will destroy anything you come in contact with. Your time is over. The gentle, compassionate, non-aggressive, spread the wealth, don't work hard, era is now upon us.
Repent and its slightly possible that you will be forgiven.
You are successful white men. You are evil. You must be stopped. Your business, your lifestyle, your way of being, must be stopped at all costs.
You will destroy anything you come in contact with. Your time is over. The gentle, compassionate, non-aggressive, spread the wealth, don't work hard, era is now upon us.
Repent and its slightly possible that you will be forgiven.
Indy GT
Yea, I got one...too
we are on a Roll
Chip-
Your posts are greatly entertaining, insightful and full of interesting facts!
You da man!
Chip-
Your posts are greatly entertaining, insightful and full of interesting facts!
You da man!