Ford vs Ferrari

Ed Sims · Jul 30, 2015

I remember when the FGT came out the Ferrari forums were all ablaze about how the FGT would sink in values like an anchor. And now Ferrari is going public (10% of the company stocks to anyone out there!). They want to ramp up production to devalue their cars even more! At least the entry level cars that is!

Ed

RJY · Jul 30, 2015

Red 4 option 2005 just sold for $319k + 10% at RM this past weekend. 370 miles. Nice.

Roadtrip · Aug 2, 2015

Nice if you don't drive it. I'm about to hit 10k (and I live 3 miles from work)... These prices are for trailer queens which I don't care to have (mine is nearly unmolested, minus some GT Guys mods) but driven as much as possible.

I know there are guys on this forum, who've driven far more miles than me, which makes me jealous that they can... One day, mileage won't matter, like on a 55' 300sl Gullwing etc.

These prices are for zero mileage cars and don't reflect most of us here. If you wan't to sit on your car and stare, great, watch it appreciate in value, but in all honesty, the owner's are losing 10 fold in enjoyment. It's sad to see this many cross the auction block with no miles.

Sinovac · Aug 2, 2015

Roadtrip said:
These prices are for zero mileage cars and don't reflect most of us here. If you wan't to sit on your car and stare, great, watch it appreciate in value, but in all honesty, the owner's are losing 10 fold in enjoyment. It's sad to see this many cross the auction block with no miles.

......and even at that price the car offers a subpar ROI. It gets uglier when you factor in the carrying costs of the car. Besides, I don't have the will power nor the desire to let a fantastic car like that sit still. Think of all the smiles you're denying young car enthusiasts everywhere. :lol

Ed Sims · Aug 3, 2015

Oh, life is too short as we have discussed here many times. Go drive your GT & have fun my friends!

Ed

FBA · Aug 3, 2015

Sinovac said:
......and even at that price the car offers a subpar ROI. It gets uglier when you factor in the carrying costs of the car. Besides, I don't have the will power nor the desire to let a fantastic car like that sit still. Think of all the smiles you're denying young car enthusiasts everywhere. :lol

Carrying costs are NIL when factored into resale value. Carrying costs are basically only opportunity costs - so say you get a 10% annual ROI on your investments, which would be tough at best YOY...and then you're required to pay taxes on it, eventually. That's marginal compared to the ROI on a no-mileage garage queen...(say around 25-27% in my case), where I have zero tax hit when I sell. Add insurance and maint for about 1600/ yr. That beats everything I have in my portfolio today, including my real estate.

BlackICE · Aug 3, 2015

By the letter of the law the US gov will want it's cut of a profitable sale, not at cap gains rates, but at the collectable tax rate of 28% + 3.5%, state taxes may vary.

http://www.groco.com/article/the_tax_side_of_dealing_in_collector_cars.aspx

Sinovac · Aug 3, 2015

FBA said:
Carrying costs are NIL when factored into resale value.
...
so say you get a 10% ROI
...
I have zero tax hit when I sell.

Your first point is an integral part of the Great Lie of automobile investing. No one wants to consider the carrying costs when calculating ROI, but it is, of course, nonsensical not to do so. Would you rather own a load or no-load mutual fund if both have the same return? Do they have the same effective rate of return?

As to your second point, 10% need not be assumed in our hypothetical. A much more modest return makes the point.

Lastly, your statement about the taxation of a gain on the sale of an automobile in Canada is simply wrong. Consult your tax code again.

Put pencil to paper, do the math, and prove me wrong.

ROCK · Aug 3, 2015

You have to take into account that some of those low miles cars you see at actions are owned by people who own multiple GTs.
It gets to a point that other cars made their way into their garage and have to let something else go.

Kayvan · Aug 3, 2015

If your collection is over 4 cars you are not a Car Collector you are in storage business....buying Public Storage stock or storage REIT would be better!

Unless said cars are literally in garage next to house or under it...you wont drive anything over 6 cars on weekends....more than 8-10 times a year (52wks / 6 = 8.66)

I see dudes with 3 cars garages and lifts, and the top cars have not been down in months....

Im in Cali with a 4 bay, and 365 sunny days and it takes planning:

-Early morning/avoid traffic
-Take covers off, battery tenders, move remotes.
-Move cars ...like chess board
-Gas up
-take ride/get back before...
-re-park, cover, tender.

Im not even addressing washing, waxing, service, DMV/SMOG/tags, "issues"

nautoncall · Aug 3, 2015

Roadtrip said:
Nice if you don't drive it. I'm about to hit 10k (and I live 3 miles from work)... These prices are for trailer queens which I don't care to have (mine is nearly unmolested, minus some GT Guys mods) but driven as much as possible.

I know there are guys on this forum, who've driven far more miles than me, which makes me jealous that they can... One day, mileage won't matter, like on a 55' 300sl Gullwing etc.

These prices are for zero mileage cars and don't reflect most of us here. If you wan't to sit on your car and stare, great, watch it appreciate in value, but in all honesty, the owner's are losing 10 fold in enjoyment. It's sad to see this many cross the auction block with no miles.

I've posed this question before and still no definitive answer. So what's a 30K, 40K, 75K mile car selling for? Or are there none for sale because the only cars for sale are the garage queen investor cars because we who love the car and drive them don't sell them? All the prices on eBay, etc are 250K-450K. Has anyone seen a car sell in the last year for under 200K unless it was salvage?

I agree will anyone care in 20-30 years. Look at the Ferrari Dino 246 with similar production numbers as the FGT.

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Ford vs Ferrari

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