Poking a hornet's nest


GT Tech

Ford GT Team Alumni
Aug 13, 2006
678
Kingman, Arizona
:facepalm: I'm sure this will get HUGE responses, (likely not good ones) but I feel it is necessary to express some thoughts.

Shouldn't the new GT be called the Multimatic GT?

Let me explain.
We all know that the original GT-40 was farmed out to various non OEM builders. Ford supplied most of the parts and Cosworth, H-M, or Shelby did the actual building. Made sense, as they were VERY low build numbers, designed for one thing only. Whipping Enzo's butt at Le Mans. Other than the handful of MK-3s that were made for public consumption, they never were meant for general sale to the public.

When I went on the 05-06 GT program in July of 03, it was a big deal for us when we learned that Bill Ford had insisted that the car be finished built by Ford employees at a Ford facility. We were given to understand that Saleen wanted to build the whole car initially. When I was working on the "GT Team History" year book, I did a page for the book on that very thing.

Fast forward to 2015. Ford shows off the incredible new GT. From what little most of us know about it, it looks like it's going to rock the hyper car world. Kind of makes me swell with pride. But other than Ford parts and engineering, it's a Multimatic. How many of the F cars are not made in Italy by F employees? How many Audi, BMW, M-B supercars, are farmed out to non OEM builders?

Don't get me wrong, I've almost had wet dreams about the new car. Wish I could have been involved with it. But being, from what we have heard, more than just a handful of race cars, 3-4 hundred a year for ? years is a production car in my book. I know it's not practical to do a build set up like the 05-06 cars, but still is kind of saddening for me.

Let my thumping begin :leaving::smash
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,361
Washington State
:pop

For various reasons, it could be argued either way.

But, technically speaking, I suppose your argument is pretty much spot on.
 
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viva gt

GT Owner
Sep 15, 2010
419
toronto canada
So, mfgt, mmfgt, mfgte, mmfgte??? And so on?????
 

twobjshelbys

GT Owner
Jul 26, 2010
6,060
Las Vegas, NV
This GT, in many ways, is a return to the methods and strategy of the 60's cars, Cobra, Daytona Coupe and GT40. Mostly built by others, first purpose as race cars, with a few sold to the public to satisfy the requirements of the FIA.

There is one other aspect of this strategy as used by Ford that hasn't been discussed yet #4 below). As a checklist:

1. Get in quick (check done)
2. Build a few cars for the general public (in progress)
3. Prove a point by winning big (TBD)
4. Exit just as quickly as they get in (TBD, but the had handwriting is on the wall)
 
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tpraceman

THEE GT OWNER
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 20, 2006
2,835
Washington Michigan
Autorama is coming up, I expect you will be onsite with that wild red stang. Then while you are here we can run up the 401 grab the body shells and zip over to jack's in Livonia and grab the powertrain then slip on down I75 to Flatrock assembly and borrow some guys and then......You and I have to flog each one at Romeo proving grounds (in my back yard). Then we can put on the Ford badges of which I will make at my shop!!!

:) smiling yet?
 

fordification

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2005
292
Sort of related,

Ironically, I was always pissed off with whoever trademarked the name and stole GT40 from ford. Well it so happened to be superformance that stole it, which is actually the very company I'm hoping to buy from.
 

twobjshelbys

GT Owner
Jul 26, 2010
6,060
Las Vegas, NV
Sort of related,

Ironically, I was always pissed off with whoever trademarked the name and stole GT40 from ford. Well it so happened to be superformance that stole it, which is actually the very company I'm hoping to buy from.

Safir Spares owns the GT40 trademark. Superformance licenses it from them.

They make a pretty nice GT40 replica.
 

fordification

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2005
292
FWIW, original gt40's were assembled in england.
 

fordification

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2005
292
Safir Spares owns the GT40 trademark. Superformance licenses it from them.

They make a pretty nice GT40 replica.

Ah, good to know.
 

RALPHIE

GT Owner
Mar 1, 2007
7,278
As I recall, Ford let the trademark "GT40" go to John Wyer who continued the FAV business (Ford Advanced Vehicles in England) by starting J.W. Automotive Engineering Ltd (JWA) with John Willment. They wound up winning Le Mans in 1968 & 1969, fielding Ford GT40s. John sold off the GT40 spare parts manufacturing to Safir, who inherited the GT40 trademark.

http://www.gt401132.com/the-ford-safir-gt40-story.asp
 
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Xcentric

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 9, 2012
5,213
Myakka City, Florida
Did Multimatic plan, design, and engineer the FGT2? Is a Ford a Ford only if assembled by Ford employees?

About 70% of a Mustang's content is purchased from suppliers. Most of which also supply other auto makers. About 35% of a Mustang is not even North American content.

By your argument, the FGT could be named Saleen GT because they did the majority of the work. Wixom accounted for a relatively small amount of work...a portion of the chassis and powertrain installation, trim installation, final testing. Of course the engine is Ford assembled, although also not entirely made by Ford.

Should Ford build its own CF bakery? If so, why?

My answer to your question is, no. It's clearly a Ford GT. Unless I have been seriously misled, the brilliance we see happened in a basement room at Ford.

P.S. Is a Lamborghini with an Audi engine still a Lamborghini? Or is it the other way around? :lol
 
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dbk

The Favor Factory™
Staff member
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jul 30, 2005
15,187
Metro Detroit
Pretty much what I was gonna say.
 

stuntman

GT Owner
Jan 15, 2015
216
FWIW, original gt40's were assembled in england.
Wasn't it essentially a modified Lola MK6?

...Foreign built chassis with a race-proven powerplant from a mainstream full-sized sedan. Sounds like that winning combination is back.


EDIT - Is the Focus RS not a "Ford" because it's made in Germany?
 
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Kayvan

GT Owner
Jul 13, 2006
4,782
Audi: Magna Steyr, numerous Euro suppliers

M-B: AMG, McLaren, Brabus, Steyr, etc

BMW: Alpina, Magna Steyr, Lambo did M1

Ferrari: Fiat

In Europe, they dont have scale economies to make everything from cranks to ashtrays
 
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fordification

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2005
292
I would say whoever made the decision on design and who pays the bill.
 

PL510*Jeff

Well-known member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Nov 3, 2005
4,878
Renton, Washington
well Rich - lot's of bzzzzzzzzzz
 

jcthorne

GT Owner
Aug 30, 2011
792
Houston
So the new GT will officially be an import then carrying a 2F... VIN number.
 

AJB

GT
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jun 28, 2006
2,944
Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
Questions to always ask..
Who funds the program?
Whose engineers ultimately put their signatures on the detail dwgs?
Whose engineers conduct final sign off for
..FMVSS
..Design verification
..ok to build
..ok to ship
If there is ever a recall, who signs the letter?
I think not the supplier no matter who it is or how
Big a role they play.
Ford motor co. Has ultimate responsibility.
Ajb (Andy)
 

Neil Ressler

Ford GT Team Alumni
Nov 24, 2009
11
Perhaps this is a good time to recall some facts in the initial phases of the FGT program. When Bill Ford asked me in January, 2002, to look into what it would take to put the GT-40 Show Car into limited production he had only two conditions. The first was that we had to have a car for the Ford Centennial in June, 2003, which was 18 months away, and the other was not to involve main line Ford in the program. I told him that we could have a car for the Centennial and that we would need a small Ford "core" team but that we would leverage outside suppliers. The "core" team ended up being the SVT Team whose members are well known to Forum members. This team retained complete responsibility for the program, carrying out all of the tasks noted by Andy Benedict in the earlier entry.

A good part of the time between January, 2002, when all of this started, and May, 2002, when the program was kicked off, involved selecting the various suppliers who would supply all of the parts for the car and, in some cases, provide system integration. Aside from the engine, everything was outsourced, including assembly, which was handled in the Saleen facility in Troy, Michigan. No one would ever have thought to call the car anything but a "Ford GT", as Ford retained complete responsibility. It was certainly not going to be a "Saleen GT", a "Roush GT", a "Lear GT" or any other GT. It was a Ford from the start.

An earlier note correctly states that the Saleen facility could have completed the car, and if they had done so it would still have been a Ford GT. The reason that Wixom got involved was that a UAW contract was coming up in the fall and the President of Ford, Jim Padilla, had enough issues to deal with and he didn't need another one involving where the FGT was completed and shipped. To my knowledge Bill Ford was not involved in this decision. It added some cost, due to higher labor rates at Wixom, but, in the end, it all worked out. And we settled with the UAW without an issue regarding the FGT.

By the way, the involvement of Multimatics in the new FGT is not their first contribution. Back in 1999, when work was underway on what we called "Petunia", Mutimatics built the first Ford designed chassis. This was the chassis that was used later in the Yellow 2002 Show Car in Detroit.

Multimatics is a very competent company and Larry Holt is an exceptionally competent engineer/manager but the new FGT will be a Ford.
 

GTJack

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 1, 2006
1,728
Saddlebrooke, MO
And that ladies and gentlemen is the rest of the story.