600hp 08 Viper Testing against GT

[Speed Thrills]

I have heard from several people that the mags have been testing the new 08 Viper against the GT, Z06 and a few top euro machines for up comming issues. Can anyone confirm? And might they know what kind of numbers it is putting down? I'm very curious.

[bigdan40]

Go to the Viper forum @ www.viperclub.org for their are numerous threads regarding your question. Lots of interesting info to read. Dan

[ladams1]

I am also interested in the new Corvette Z06 that is supposed to be in the works. I read the factory project name is "Blue Devil" and i have seen HP expectations of 600 then 650 and most lately 680 hp.

Lee

[Speed Thrills]

I am also interested in the new Corvette Z06 that is supposed to be in the works. I read the factory project name is "Blue Devil" and i have seen HP expectations of 600 then 650 and most lately 680 hp.

Lee

Yes, that vette is confirmed but no exact specs on HP and price. Will be a monster for sure but will probably lack in the looks dept since it will now be well into the "supercar" stattus in price and performance.

[FORDGT001]

I am First on the List with my Local Dodge dealer for a 08 Viper. I am waiting on some Magazine testing to see how it will compare to my 07 Z06. I hope the Viper is faster in a straight line.

[lamboman]

I have heard from several people that the mags have been testing the new 08 Viper against the GT, Z06 and a few top euro machines for up comming issues. Can anyone confirm? And might they know what kind of numbers it is putting down? I'm very curious.

Look for 0-60 in the 3.3-3.4 from Motor Tremd...quarter mile times below 11.5. RWHP is over 535. Actual crank HP is closer to 615.

[lamboman]

Yes, that vette is confirmed but no exact specs on HP and price. Will be a monster for sure but will probably lack in the looks dept since it will now be well into the "supercar" stattus in price and performance.

Yes..confirmed but not even a display car at the Detroit Show. Dodge has already put its next step at the show....the terminator at 675 HP. lol.


http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/2844/viper08mv0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Kave]

Look at the racing slicks on that viper. That car is just sick.:eek

[lamboman]

Look at the racing slicks on that viper. That car is just sick.:eek

Yeah..it is. I am in the process of doing one of my '06 Coupes to look exactly like that car. A clone so to speak!!

[FORDGT001]

Look for 0-60 in the 3.3-3.4 from Motor Tremd...quarter mile times below 11.5. RWHP is over 535. Actual crank HP is closer to 615.

So your Prediction, Will it beat the Z06 In a the Quarter?

[lamboman]

So your Prediction, Will it beat the Z06 In a the Quarter?

Prediction...with a little bit of inside info. Yes..it beats the Z.

[todd]

Yeah..it is. I am in the process of doing one of my '06 Coupes to look exactly like that car. A clone so to speak!!

Leave off the red stripe it is fugly:willy

[Speed Thrills]

Prediction...with a little bit of inside info. Yes..it beats the Z.

Expect to see quite a few more vipers up on curbs. The overage Joe was having problems keeping the 500hp version in control. Know of two friends that have done so. Cant believe they dont equip these 500hp+ cars w traction control.

[Kave]

Yeah..it is. I am in the process of doing one of my '06 Coupes to look exactly like that car. A clone so to speak!!

Dont leave anything out. I definately want to see that when its done.:thumbsup

[everetto]

Is the question whether the new Viper will beat the current Z06, or the Blue Devil? Either way, it will lose.... if vs. the current Z, it will need to beat 10.85 (which no STOCK GT has ever done, and no stock Viper is even in the same league), and if vs. the Blue Devil - well, hard to predict against a car that has not even been built yet, but the new Viper STILL weighs too much and the Blue Devil is rumored to be less than 3000 lbs (for those that don't know what this means - a RACE car on the street)...

[FORDGT001]

That was 10.85 on DR's not Bone Stock. No Z has run in the 10's Bone Stock. If it doesn't beat my 07Z then I'm not interested in it. I Hope Everetto is right.

[everetto]

That was 10.85 on DR's not Bone Stock. No Z has run in the 10's Bone Stock. If it doesn't beat my 07Z then I'm not interested in it. I Hope Everetto is right.

You are correct, the 10.85 was on DRs. It was 11.2 on the factory tires, which will still be a tough target to hit!

[lamboman]

You are correct, the 10.85 was on DRs. It was 11.2 on the factory tires, which will still be a tough target to hit!

So you are saying that the stock '08 Viper has to beat the FASTEST time ever recorded? No...that isn't the way a true comparison test is done. Out of over 30 different Z's that I have seen run, including mine...have yet to see a bone stock hit below 11.7...and many are in the low 12's. Yes..Ranger hit those times. What about the guys who can't crack 12.3 in the Z? You have to look at the mag tests where they run the SAME track, SAME driver, SAME condition. I have all the comparison tests done on the z over the last 2 years. Norm is 11.7-12.0. The '06 Viper is at 11.9- 12.3. I have NEVER lost to a new Z at the strip in one of my bone stock Vipers. Of course..I can run 11.5's all day long, and for some reason..it is MUCH quicker than my other Vipers. Not the norm for a stock SRT. Kinda like Ranger's Z. Yes..the '08 will beat the Z with same driver, same track, same condition. The BD?? Not even a concept at the show yet. After EPA..certification..etc, I will begin to think about it. The short lived run of the Z as king of the hill is over. It was a one year run. History of quickest American cars since '92:
92...Viper
93...Viper
94...Viper
95...Viper
96...Viper
97...Viper
98...Viper
99...Viper
00...Viper
01...Viper
02...Viper
03...Viper
04...Viper
05...FGT
06...FGT
07...Z06 (No FGT or Viper produced)
08...???


I have owned 3 C6 Z's...still have an '07. The '06 Viper is about .3 slower than the stock Z in the quarter. The '08 will eat it up. That damn power to weight thing..and add the new sticky stock tires on top of that. 535RWHP...sticky stock tires...new rear-end..upgraded tranny...all new clutch....on a slightly lighter car than the '06 Viper.

[lamboman]

Leave off the red stripe it is fugly:willy


I like the Red stripe. It will be on the car.

[lamboman]

Expect to see quite a few more vipers up on curbs. The overage Joe was having problems keeping the 500hp version in control. Know of two friends that have done so. Cant believe they dont equip these 500hp+ cars w traction control.

Viper owners don't want traction control. The Vette is around for that stuff. The Viper is an active driving machine. Takes skill and experience to get the most out of the car, and the novice will put it into a ditch or wall. Save the nanny tech for someone else. However..the day is coming where it will be government regulated for all vehicles, unfortunately. The write up below explains the Viper. This was a CNN issue on Collectable cars of the future by Hagerty:

Dodge Viper
An avid, cult-like following can boost a car's appeal in the collector-car market, said McKeel Hagerty of Hagerty Insurance. The Viper is a superb example of the phenomenon.
"The Viper created almost a new category for itself as kind of the anti-Corvette," said Hagerty.

The Chevrolet Corvette has its followers, too, but the Viper prides itself on being a car for the truly dedicated.

The 'Vette pampers and protects you with amenities like cupholders, side impact airbags and electronic stability control.

The Viper, on the other hand, will do you no favors. It will not hold your beverage and it will not protect you if you manage to skid sideways into a tree. You'll experience the Viper's exhaust heat and engine noise first hand.

With its enormous tires and extremely sensitive steering, the Viper responds to every wrinkle in the road, so you'd better keep both hands on the wheel.

But the Viper's extreme, pit-bull image could make it highly collectible in the future. The upcoming 2008 Viper is shown here.

[Pete S.]

And if we are lucky, as with passenger air bags, there will be a cut-off switch to disable it.(government regulated traction control)

[Fast Freddy]

traction control is for gurls. the vette is a chic car

[GFORCE]

Ive had four vipers,still have two.Ill trade my 03 on a 08.Thats the joy no,
track control.Thats why i love my gts.One whipple monster the other with
pulley and yada yada yada.Just a real drivers car.

[FORDGT001]

So you are saying that the stock '08 Viper has to beat the FASTEST time ever recorded? No...that isn't the way a true comparison test is done. Out of over 30 different Z's that I have seen run, including mine...have yet to see a bone stock hit below 11.7...and many are in the low 12's. Yes..Ranger hit those times. What about the guys who can't crack 12.3 in the Z? You have to look at the mag tests where they run the SAME track, SAME driver, SAME condition. I have all the comparison tests done on the z over the last 2 years. Norm is 11.7-12.0. The '06 Viper is at 11.9- 12.3. I have NEVER lost to a new Z at the strip in one of my bone stock Vipers. Of course..I can run 11.5's all day long, and for some reason..it is MUCH quicker than my other Vipers. Not the norm for a stock SRT. Kinda like Ranger's Z. Yes..the '08 will beat the Z with same driver, same track, same condition. The BD?? Not even a concept at the show yet. After EPA..certification..etc, I will begin to think about it. The short lived run of the Z as king of the hill is over. It was a one year run. History of quickest American cars since '92:
92...Viper
93...Viper
94...Viper
95...Viper
96...Viper
97...Viper
98...Viper
99...Viper
00...Viper
01...Viper
02...Viper
03...Viper
04...Viper
05...FGT
06...FGT
07...Z06 (No FGT or Viper produced)
08...???


I have owned 3 C6 Z's...still have an '07. The '06 Viper is about .3 slower than the stock Z in the quarter. The '08 will eat it up. That damn power to weight thing..and add the new sticky stock tires on top of that. 535RWHP...sticky stock tires...new rear-end..upgraded tranny...all new clutch....on a slightly lighter car than the '06 Viper.

Very Interesting.

[FORDGT001]

So you are saying that the stock '08 Viper has to beat the FASTEST time ever recorded? No...that isn't the way a true comparison test is done. Out of over 30 different Z's that I have seen run, including mine...have yet to see a bone stock hit below 11.7...and many are in the low 12's. Yes..Ranger hit those times. What about the guys who can't crack 12.3 in the Z? You have to look at the mag tests where they run the SAME track, SAME driver, SAME condition. I have all the comparison tests done on the z over the last 2 years. Norm is 11.7-12.0. The '06 Viper is at 11.9- 12.3. I have NEVER lost to a new Z at the strip in one of my bone stock Vipers. Of course..I can run 11.5's all day long, and for some reason..it is MUCH quicker than my other Vipers. Not the norm for a stock SRT. Kinda like Ranger's Z. Yes..the '08 will beat the Z with same driver, same track, same condition. The BD?? Not even a concept at the show yet. After EPA..certification..etc, I will begin to think about it. The short lived run of the Z as king of the hill is over. It was a one year run. History of quickest American cars since '92:
92...Viper
93...Viper
94...Viper
95...Viper
96...Viper
97...Viper
98...Viper
99...Viper
00...Viper
01...Viper
02...Viper
03...Viper
04...Viper
05...FGT
06...FGT
07...Z06 (No FGT or Viper produced)
08...???


I have owned 3 C6 Z's...still have an '07. The '06 Viper is about .3 slower than the stock Z in the quarter. The '08 will eat it up. That damn power to weight thing..and add the new sticky stock tires on top of that. 535RWHP...sticky stock tires...new rear-end..upgraded tranny...all new clutch....on a slightly lighter car than the '06 Viper.
Lamboman your the King of the Vipers So Will the 2010 Viper have 680-700HP? How many 08's will you be getting?

[everetto]

So you are saying that the stock '08 Viper has to beat the FASTEST time ever recorded? No...that isn't the way a true comparison test is done. Out of over 30 different Z's that I have seen run, including mine...have yet to see a bone stock hit below 11.7...and many are in the low 12's.

No, the new Viper won't have to beat the fastest recorded time, but it is the yardstick that is out there, and which comes to mind every time these comparisons come up. As far as Ranger's being the only fast one? Nope, there are quite a few guys over on the Forum running between 11.7 and 11.4 once they learned how to manage the conservative TM which makes it difficult to get a really hard launch. With 600HP the new Viper SHOULD beat the Z in a straight line due to a slightly better lb/HP ratio - if it really does so remains to be seen. As far as the Blue Devil not being shown at Detroit this year - no one expected it to be there. It is meaningless to insinuate something about the car b/c it was not at the show - it's a function of new models coming out in staggered fashion. If they do build the Blue Devil it should have the best lb/HP ratio of any of these cars when it is released. Will something better it in the following years? Probably.

[FORDGT001]

There are always a handful of guys who will Get better times then the rest of the drivers. I Think the thing to compare is the average Z driver against the average Viper driver. I can't believe that Dodge would waste its time with a new and improved Viper that is slower then the Z06. The Mags will at least test these cars against each other with same drivers same day same conditions. Its interesting that Lamboman has seen 30 different Z's run no better then 11.7 and that his Viper runs 11.5. If the Viper beats the Z in every speed contest(In the MAGS) there will still be non believers. All in All I am very pleased to see 600HP in a production street car. If the numbers are correct then the Viper will have almost a 100HP advantage to the ground then the Z. The BD Corvette will be marked-up at least $100K and in limited supply. The race is on.

[lamboman]

Lamboman your the King of the Vipers So Will the 2010 Viper have 680-700HP? How many 08's will you be getting?

LOL. Good to be King of something!! I will be getting 2 at this point. Lime Green with Black stripes and Dark Purple with white stripes.The '09 will be bumped to over 680 if the BD happens to develop. If not...the parts are available thru Mopar to take your '08 close to that level with bolt-ons. The 2010 will use the same basic motor...which I have personally seen at over 705 HP on an engine dyno. The big news in 2010 will be major body change...the power will be available if the HP wars are still on. A little info on this state of the art motor:

This motor is strong low and high- with the high extended several hundred rpm higher. As we saw firsthand on the dynos:
RPM HP TQ
2400 225 495
3700 410 550
4800 524 570
6000 613 535



There was a stable 10 degree (+/- 1 deg) delta between the incoming coolant temp and the outgoing coolant temp at the higher rpm loads.


Driveline loss: They measure a lot of things and the answer was between ~12% depending on what gear and what rpm



One of the dyno test runs is to run the motor at 100% power for 8 hours - with glowing red exhaust


Big valves with new angles: 52.8mm (2.078") intake and 40.5mm (1.59") exhaust


Exhaust cam can change up to 40 deg. This will smooth the idle a lot - to much reduce mis fires and meet EPA needs- but allows for more aggressive profile in mid and upper power bands. Variable exhaust on allows increase in upper power band while a variable intake would increase low end tq.


Massive flow rate increases as demonstrated by:

Gen 1 as a base
Gen 2 +17% over Gen 1
Gen 3 + 6% over Gen 2
Gen 4 +23% over a Gen 3


Knock Sensors and Octane: There are 2 knock sensors. they back off the timing if needed. the ecu is calibrated for 91 octane. The ecu will only back off timing - it will not just advance it until it detects a ping so 100 octane will not give any power increase


The piston/rod assembly is the unit from a 6.1 hemi. Floating pin now. Stronger and better than the Gen 3 unit. That is the reason for the 1mm bore increase


74mm Throttle Bodies!


A new oil filter that will also work on all Vipers. Less pressure drop and better filtration. Napa filter was the base but a relief valve was added specific for the Dodge brand unit.


All metric bolts now


They have tuned an 8.4 motor to put out 675hp/650tq with some bolt-on performance parts

There are two major changes which required a lot of work: CAM and PCM (they call it now Venom Control). Especially the new VC device required a lot of work. It is a brand new computer built from ground by DC and Motorola. Both the hardware and the software are new. The new engine management program is able to handle 1000 times more signals than the old PCM. The Venom control is the basement of a new generation high tech Vipers.


DC has spent and still spends millions of dollars to develop this new Viper engine. The new engine should be highly reliable. All mechanical improvements are coming from race proven technologies. I think there are 5 dynos running full time this new engine. Believe me the new engine is highly tested. But really the challenge is the new Venom Control device and not the mechanical improvements. Engineers explained that they have done everything before deciding to replace the Old PCM from the early 90's.


Unfortunately the VC is so sophisticated that it will be harder for tuners to alter its signals. According to engineers the last GEN 3 vipers from 2006 should gain in value since they are the last generation Vipers with the old PCM. However they insured us that they will do their best to make performance Venom controllers available through Mopar.


The entire oiling system was upgraded. One of the DC engineers said "it was turbo charged". The oiling system was improved because it is responsible to provided high pressure oil to the cam positionning system. This requires also a special oil filter. If the oiling system was also very good before now its reliability got to the level of an F-16 airplane. All the technology used for the oiling system comes from race proven applications.

There is a sensor at the cockpit side of the engin checking if the cam is at the desired position. If not it will stop the engin. The oiling system and espetially the oil pan was modified such a way that the engin will never miss any oil no matter what you do.

The head was redesigned such a way that it could fit on a GEN 3 Viper ! It flows 23% more air than the 06 head ! Look for new parts at the Mopar counter !!!!

The block is the same but cylinders were bored 1mm larger. So 2008 pistons will not fit on a 2006 Viper.

[lamboman]

No, the new Viper won't have to beat the fastest recorded time, but it is the yardstick that is out there, and which comes to mind every time these comparisons come up. As far as Ranger's being the only fast one? Nope, there are quite a few guys over on the Forum running between 11.7 and 11.4 once they learned how to manage the conservative TM which makes it difficult to get a really hard launch. With 600HP the new Viper SHOULD beat the Z in a straight line due to a slightly better lb/HP ratio - if it really does so remains to be seen. As far as the Blue Devil not being shown at Detroit this year - no one expected it to be there. It is meaningless to insinuate something about the car b/c it was not at the show - it's a function of new models coming out in staggered fashion. If they do build the Blue Devil it should have the best lb/HP ratio of any of these cars when it is released. Will something better it in the following years? Probably.

Don't want to beat a dead horse, but the only comparison is SAME DRIVER, SAME TRACK, SAME CONDITION...with factory STOCK cars. No one cares what Ranger ran in his quicker than any other Z car..or what Lamboman ran in his quicker than any other SRT car. Head to head..equal everything. My Z06's are .3 quicker than my SRT's...(except for the worlds quickest stock srt). This is after running my 3 Z's and many SRT's on the same condition. The '08 will pick up .5-.8 over the '06 Viper. You can't minimize the tire factor..it is huge. Anyway...the first test will be reported end of next week. We will see. I hope they do produce the BD. It will only keep the wars alive.

[analogdesigner]

Expect to see quite a few more vipers up on curbs. The overage Joe was having problems keeping the 500hp version in control. Know of two friends that have done so. Cant believe they dont equip these 500hp+ cars w traction control.
Is anyone aware of lawsuit(s) involving persons that have crashed their cars, claiming that their traction control had failed?

Just curious, Jay

http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34

[HOGDEALER]

lamboman

Great info. Thanks!!

[everetto]

No one cares what Ranger ran in his quicker than any other Z car..or what Lamboman ran in his quicker than any other SRT car. You can't minimize the tire factor..it is huge. Anyway...the first test will be reported end of next week. We will see. I hope they do produce the BD. It will only keep the wars alive.
Also not to beat a dead horse (which of course we are doing), Ranger will guarantee that his car is not special. How could he have gotten a special car when the car one receives is a random item? The fact is the Z is the first car conforming to the new SAE standard and although it has been beat to death - all the Z motors are within about 5 HP and the Society of Automotive Engineers guarantees that. This is crankshaft horsepower on a proper engine dyno in carefully controlled conditions - as opposed to the highly variable chassis dyno numbers we see across all makes of cars. My opinion is that Ranger could run within one or two tenths of his times in anyone's Z - mine or yours included.
My main point however, is that when the magazines start testing the current Z against any upcoming cars, Joe Blow, or any test driver limited to a few passes will have a much harder time bringing in a representative time with the Z (TM) than the Viper, or the GT, etc. You give the cars to a magazine and the driver gets to make a couple of passes and his time in a non-TM car will be "relatively" better (more representative of the car's actual power capabilities) than the TM car which requires many passes to optimize. True, this is built into the car, so the test on the surface is fair - but it poorly represents the Z in my opinion. In a quick search yesterday I found several time slips posted between 11.67 and 11.4 on stock tires for the Z, so when the magazines test it against the new Viper and they get a 12, it won't mean much to me.

I agree that the new Viper should beat the current Z by a tad due to its slightly better lb/HP;
Viper; 5.83 lb/HP
Z; 6.19 lb/HP

All I ask is that the Z is "fairly" represented, which will immediately be obivous when we see its time.

[lamboman]

Also not to beat a dead horse.................

I agree that the new Viper should beat the current Z by a tad due to its slightly better lb/HP;
Viper; 5.83 lb/HP
Z; 6.19 lb/HP

All I ask is that the Z is "fairly" represented, which will immediately be obivous when we see its time.

It is a great time to be into GT'S/Vettes/Vipers. Bring the power on. The last of my endless analysis:

HP as a % to total vehicle weight. Using known RWHP averages.

05/06 FGT...............15.0% RWHP...using 510WHP
06/07 Z06...............14.1%.RWHP...using 450WHP
06 Viper..................12.9% RWHP...using 440WHP

08 Viper..................................15.8% RWHP...using 535WHP

Please ask those guys who own both a Viper and C6 Z06. All will tell you that the Z is faster...but not by a huge amount. I will continue to use the .3 in the quarter...because that is what I have seen on my cars...and at the strip in others cars. You can also improve the Vipers timeslip by doing many things that comes with experience. There are Z guys running 11.4/11.5 for sure...but there are SRT guys running 11.7/11.8 as well....and we are still at the .3 that I talk about. Take it to Rangers 11.2, and take my 11.5. Still .3. I will make a prediction that I will put the '08 Viper into the 10's...bone stock. It may take me a couple of months, but I will get it there. And my comment on Ranger is more the driver than the car. He also holds the record for the C5 Z06 I believe. But...these cars do vary in power...and there are good and bad ones. My first C6 Z dyno'd at 435...my current one at 451..on the same dyno. It is quicker than the other 2 I had, no doubt. Good debating the subject with you. Long live American Muscle.

[everetto]

Good debating the subject with you. Long live American Muscle.

Well said, and it was good discussing things with you - always nice to be able to have a decent conversation rather than one of those common Internet debacles (which I too often am guilty of myself). I think your numbers are pretty fair, and I think we are actually pretty close on our ideas of the numbers. I also bet you will get your new Viper into the 10s.
:cheers

[lamboman]

Well said, and it was good discussing things with you - always nice to be able to have a decent conversation rather than one of those common Internet debacles (which I too often am guilty of myself).

Thank you Everett. I myself have fallen into the internet debacle more times than I would like to remember. Again...great meeting you. A.J.

[GT 1547]

I have money down on the first Blue Devil (ZO7, SS, Sting Ray?) to hit Utah. Supposed to be summer 2008 if everything goes as planned. I currently have a C6 ZO6 and the GT. I have never timed either car but seat of the pants the ZO6 feels pretty close to the GT in acceration. Hopefully next year I will be able to tell you how the BD feels.

[satx]

Look for 0-60 in the 3.3-3.4 from Motor Tremd...quarter mile times below 11.5. RWHP is over 535. Actual crank HP is closer to 615.


I'm curious what trap speed we'll be seeing with 530+rwhp.....130MPH?

[lamboman]

I'm curious what trap speed we'll be seeing with 530+rwhp.....130MPH?

That would be an excellent guess!!

[jamie]

As an owner of all three cars GT, Z06 and previous owner of several vipers including the first Heffner Supercharged one, there is a huge difference between the C6 Z06 and the current viper. The new vipers struggle to break into the elevens with a good driver, and my bone stock Z06 as delivered my first time ever at the track in the car ran consistent 11.3's at 128 with a best of 11.2 at 129, and I am sure 10's would be an easy task with drag radials. I think its very unlikely that the new viper will indeed be able to out run the Z06 and if does I will be very surprised! I know ranger and have raced with him on several occassions and although a good driver, not supernatural and neither am I, and the times posted represent what ANY Z06 with a capable driver can attain. The best time my GT was able to post as delivered was a 11.5 at 126.5 and I think that pretty good but the Z06 is just unreal!

[Pedalpusher]

Can anyone explain why the C6 Z06 is so fast? Don't they usually make around 440 to 450 to the wheels? The GT (mine anyway) makes 535 whp, give or take a few. Shouldn't 80 or 90 horsepower, at the tire, and mid-engine traction, be able to overcome the Z's 300lb advantage?

[lamboman]

The GT (mine anyway) makes 535 whp, give or take a few. Shouldn't 80 or 90 horsepower, at the tire, and mid-engine traction, be able to overcome the Z's 300lb advantage?

Absolutely. The Z has a little advantage with the low gearing, not enough to offset the 85-90 WHP. See...everyone has a different story. My GT's have outrun my 3 C6 Z's. Jamie said his Z was quicker than his GT. Would be curious what his WHP is on both cars. Have heard of a few GT's in the 480's...and a few Z's in the 460's. That would certainly make the Z quicker. Still have never seen a Mag. comparison test that had the Z quicker than the GT. Most have the GT up by .2 or more.

[everetto]

That is why in my earlier post I discussed SAE crank HP, because chassis dynos vary so widely - on ANY type of car, day to day, hour to hour, using various correction and smoothing factors etc. The majority of the Z's I have seen do about 450, but yes, some do 460 or a tad more.

The Z is fast due to its light weight, and as Lamboman stated - it has a bit of an overall effective gearing advantage, at least when compared to the GT; 3.42 vs. 3.36 differential and rear tires that are MUCH shorter.

Jamie - I knew you had some really good times in your Z, I just did not want to speak for you - congrats again - you and Ranger have set the bar quite high, with nearly identical times!

And the poor magazine times for the Z goes back to my earlier point regarding drivers making a limited number of passes with the Z. It is just a fact that it will take more passes/skill to make the Z show its true potential - more so with the Z than any other non-TM car.

[GERMANORACING]

As an owner of all three cars GT, Z06 and previous owner of several vipers including the first Heffner Supercharged one, there is a huge difference between the C6 Z06 and the current viper. The new vipers struggle to break into the elevens with a good driver, and my bone stock Z06 as delivered my first time ever at the track in the car ran consistent 11.3's at 128 with a best of 11.2 at 129, and I am sure 10's would be an easy task with drag radials. I think its very unlikely that the new viper will indeed be able to out run the Z06 and if does I will be very surprised! I know ranger and have raced with him on several occassions and although a good driver, not supernatural and neither am I, and the times posted represent what ANY Z06 with a capable driver can attain. The best time my GT was able to post as delivered was a 11.5 at 126.5 and I think that pretty good but the Z06 is just unreal!

Those ETs are very impresive, expecially on the Z06, but to my experiance comparing those ETs of your car to others that have run there cars would be fair only if the cars were run at the same track/same day, I raced at many different dragstrips on the east coast and mid east / central tracks and I do know that Virginia motorsport park is a very fast track compared to others.
That is if that is the track you ran the cars , I only asume that, you being from Virginia. ( Just my opinion)

I will take my GT out to the track sometime in April, The down side of living in CT. (weather)
I am holding of on doing any modification at this time I want to run the car bone stock first and see the true power and then see the true differance with modifications

[FORDGT001]

Has anyone ran there FGT in the Quarter as much as the Z06 guys to get a Real Comparison?

[GERMANORACING]

Those ETs are very impresive, expecially on the Z06, but to my experiance comparing those ETs of your car to others that have run there cars would be fair only if the cars were run at the same track/same day, I raced at many different dragstrips on the east coast and mid east / central tracks and I do know that Virginia motorsport park is a very fast track compared to others.
That is if that is the track you ran the cars , I only asume that, you being from Virginia. ( Just my opinion)

I will take my GT out to the track sometime in April, The down side of living in CT. (weather)
I am holding of on doing any modification at this time I want to run the car bone stock first and see the true power and then see the true differance with modifications

Adding to my message , the same driver would also need to drive all the cars!

[jamie]

The track was actually MIR maryland international raceway and I rented the track for all 3 cars on 2 different occasions and actually the weather was probably the worst (hot) for the Z06 as were the 60ft times. I have never seen more than a tenth or 2 difference at the same track in the same car even when outside tempatures have varied from 50 degrees to 90 degrees as long as the traction was similar (60ft). I have raced all over the country and many in the viper forum know me from racing vipers from englishtown to beech bend to mir and the times did not vary much nor did the mph. Like I said I have raced a lot of stock cars and all the new supercars including my Porsche and Ferrari and I have never seen a stock car turn so much mph in a quarter mile as a new C6 Z06 and its going to take more than 100 hp for the new viper to turn the et and mph the Z06 can make IMO. Maybe it will but I will have to see it to believe it. 001 I have made more pass's in the GT than the Z06 so I think my comparison is pretty accurate. Also I used my HP calculator which bases hp on mph vs weight and for the GT it said the car has 590 hp and the Z06 has 540 hp and I also think that is pretty accurate from what I have read about the cars being dynoed. From a roll the cars are probably close and maybe an edge to the GT but the hp to weight can't be beat from a dead stop and I think the weight difference is closer to 500 pounds not 300 at least when I weighed my cars. Oh and as a side note I don't want anyone to think I am biased because I am not, I love the GT and its my favorite car of all time, but things are what they are. I don't believe magazine tests I like to do the testing myself so I know the cars are getting the same skill level and maximum performance from me with no bias or bs do to whoever spends the most advertising dollars in that publication.















z

[GERMANORACING]

The track was actually MIR maryland international raceway and I rented the track for all 3 cars on 2 different occasions and actually the weather was probably the worst (hot) for the Z06 as were the 60ft times. I have never seen more than a tenth or 2 difference at the same track in the same car even when outside tempatures have varied from 50 degrees to 90 degrees as long as the traction was similar (60ft). I have raced all over the country and many in the viper forum know me from racing vipers from englishtown to beech bend to mir and the times did not vary much nor did the mph. Like I said I have raced a lot of stock cars and all the new supercars including my Porsche and Ferrari and I have never seen a stock car turn so much mph in a quarter mile as a new C6 Z06 and its going to take more than 100 hp for the new viper to turn the et and mph the Z06 can make IMO. Maybe it will but I will have to see it to believe it. 001 I have made more pass's in the GT than the Z06 so I think my comparison is pretty accurate. Also I used my HP calculator which bases hp on mph vs weight and for the GT it said the car has 590 hp and the Z06 has 540 hp and I also think that is pretty accurate from what I have read about the cars being dynoed. From a roll the cars are probably close and maybe an edge to the GT but the hp to weight can't be beat from a dead stop and I think the weight difference is closer to 500 pounds not 300 at least when I weighed my cars. Oh and as a side note I don't want anyone to think I am biased because I am not, I love the GT and its my favorite car of all time, but things are what they are. I don't believe magazine tests I like to do the testing myself so I know the cars are getting the same skill level and maximum performance from me with no bias or bs do to whoever spends the most advertising dollars in that publication.















z
Well said,
Do you know your 60' on both cars and the et/mph @the 1/8.
I would like to compare once I take my GT down the track
Thanks
Sal

[satx]

The track was actually MIR maryland international raceway and I rented the track for all 3 cars on 2 different occasions and actually the weather was probably the worst (hot) for the Z06 as were the 60ft times. I have never seen more than a tenth or 2 difference at the same track in the same car even when outside tempatures have varied from 50 degrees to 90 degrees as long as the traction was similar (60ft). I have raced all over the country and many in the viper forum know me from racing vipers from englishtown to beech bend to mir and the times did not vary much nor did the mph. Like I said I have raced a lot of stock cars and all the new supercars including my Porsche and Ferrari and I have never seen a stock car turn so much mph in a quarter mile as a new C6 Z06 and its going to take more than 100 hp for the new viper to turn the et and mph the Z06 can make IMO. Maybe it will but I will have to see it to believe it. 001 I have made more pass's in the GT than the Z06 so I think my comparison is pretty accurate. Also I used my HP calculator which bases hp on mph vs weight and for the GT it said the car has 590 hp and the Z06 has 540 hp and I also think that is pretty accurate from what I have read about the cars being dynoed. From a roll the cars are probably close and maybe an edge to the GT but the hp to weight can't be beat from a dead stop and I think the weight difference is closer to 500 pounds not 300 at least when I weighed my cars. Oh and as a side note I don't want anyone to think I am biased because I am not, I love the GT and its my favorite car of all time, but things are what they are. I don't believe magazine tests I like to do the testing myself so I know the cars are getting the same skill level and maximum performance from me with no bias or bs do to whoever spends the most advertising dollars in that publication.
z

paragraphs are your friend:thumbsup




I think alot of the advantage of the Z06 will be in the fact that there are so many more examples out there. In other words there is a much greater chance of a great driver at the right track in the right weather. Just more opportunities for the Z06 to run the number.

It is likely that we will have a similiar scenario to the GTS vs. C5Z where the ETs turned are fairly close even though if lined up side by side from a roll the GTS will walk the C5Z fairly easily. The plain fact is that it is easier to launch a lighter, lower powered car.

Performance cars are fast enough today that differences in tests like 0-60 don't tell the full story. We are quickly approaching a time where even the 1/4 mile doesn't tell that story due to the limit of factory tires. The real difference in acceleration between these cars will only fully be shown in the 0-150mph or standing mile tests.

[jamie]

GermanO, I was actually off a hair on the 60' time on the Z06 but not much.
Here is the 1/8th mile for the Z06 on its best run.
60' 1.916
330' 4.995
1/8 7.444
mph 102.43

GT
60' 1.939
330' 5.128
1/8 7.624
mph 97.22

But like I said in an earlier post, I think from a roll the GT might have and edge as it picked up 29 mph from 1/8th mile to 1/4, where as the Z06 only picked up 26.6 in the same distance.

So also like I said in an earlier post you can't beat weight from a dead stop!