Traction control

[californiacuda]

Doesn't the Gt need traction control? It seems that many of the crashes that we see come from inexperienced people stabbing the throttle and getting the car sideways (like myself).

With the Viper there are many crashes that come about for the same reason.

Why not have a traction control system that can be switched off when not wanted, but there for the uninitiated for safety?

I have purchased a racelogc traction control system that monitors wheel spin and speedometer speed and cuts injectors alternately when wheel spin is detected. It also has an in cockpit control that allows for variable wheel spin.

I am going to install it in either my Gt, or my blown hemi cuda. I will post after install.

[B O N Y]

No, the charm of the GT is NOT having the computers aiding the driver.
Of course the traction control can keep the driver out of problems.


by the way, did you ever get into the LA AUTO SHOW with the passes I Fedex'd down to you?

[californiacuda]

They kept hastling me so much I finally got mad and left. Sorry for not comunicating better.

[californiacuda]

I understand the charm thing about traction control, but tell that to the guy who just crashed his Gt or viper with 9 miles on it

[Neilda]

I have to say I prefer the GT without traction control. I don't understand how these cars are crashed with only 9 miles or so on them - unless someone is simply burying the throttle, which is not a good technique.....

[barondw]

I have to say I prefer the GT without traction control. I don't understand how these cars are crashed with only 9 miles or so on them - unless someone is simply burying the throttle, which is not a good technique.....

Or they have never driven a car this powerful and were less than careful; driver error.

Your right foot can do an excellent job of traction control once its trained. Every magazine you read shuts the damn thing off when testing a car when that's a viable option.

I guess its different strokes for different folks.

Dave

[californiacuda]

Oem traction control systems use braking to help control the car, after markets don't,. So it can help more to control wheel spinwithout causing unwanted slow down

[californiacuda]

Most aftermarket tc systems also have launch control similar to the 360 to control wheel spin and a feature that controls rpm's between shifts so that if you are trying to make a quarter mile run you can keep the accelerator pedal on the floor the entire run and rpms will top out at a preset limit of say 4000. The quarter mile run will be considerably faster.
the

[Bart Carter]

I understand the charm thing about traction control, but tell that to the guy who just crashed his Gt or viper with 9 miles on it

That is simply Darwin at work. It will always be that way.

[californiacuda]

I agree about the Darwin principle. What has sepererated man from animal is the ability to reason and to invent new and better ways to do things.

I need all of the help I can get so that I don't make close friends with a pole or some other stationary object. I hear what all of you are saying about traction control, but my car now makes almost 150hp over stock and we are headed north with the hp numbers.

I want to live, so I'll try the TC and see how it goes

[canuck]

It is the part of the formula for creating a legend and separating the "car enthusiasts" form real enthusiasts who know about cars and knows to drive them. The greatest sports cars this world has seen from ferraris to porsches and the mclearen were sans baby sitters. KEY WORD SPORTS CARS!!!! The first generations of vipers. The first porsche turbo is the legend the latest turbo is not but lives on the laurels of the infamous first turbos that would sacrafice themselves to expose someone posing as a driver. You want one? Buy one. You want to keep it you better park it or know how to drive one. How many mclearens ended in a premature termination of service to humanity because of poor drivers. Yet even today it is an icon. That is one of those things that makes the Ford GT so special. It is built for drivers. It has been gifted the qualities of attaining an iconic status as its precursor the gt40.
It hightens your senses when you get in the car. Your pusle Quickens as the car accelerates and you are feeling for the edge of control and reading, no learning the language as the car tries to communicate to you where things are at. How much grip do your rear tires afford to give you. Is the front end responding? And if not how do you regain the lines of communication before its too late. How are your braking and acceration inputs influencing the response of your steering input or attitude of the car. You are scanning the road loooking at the surface tecture and reading what this means for you and your inputs to the GT. It is reading the sitution before you reach the critical state. This is what makes the Ford GT a drivers car. If you are not one of these people the GT was NOT designed for you. It should not have to compromise its nature for you and you should not have to compromise and buy one. There are many other cars designed for such poeple. You are better off to go buy a porsche 997 turbo or a supercharged Mercedes. They were built for drivers that find comfort in electonically assisted driving.

[californiacuda]

wow, what a nut

[Neilda]

I'm not sure that Canuck is a 'nut' - he's merely pointing out that to some, the GT is the perfect 'pure' enthusiasts car. Not only invoking the GT40, but also not cosseting it's pilot with driver aids.

It's an event to drive, not a daily drive (for me) and I enjoy it more for the uncontaminated driving experience.

Pushing through corners, hustling along country roads, hurtling down a freeway - are all enhanced by not having stability or traction aids deciding for you. There are thousands of cars that offer that - Ford could have included it. They didn't - and I applaud them for that.

I drove mine yesterday and deliberately put it sideways - fantastic!! In the Lamborghini or Aston I'd have to switch stuff off, in the GT it's always on tap. Putting it in a ditch is driver error - not GT error.

[canuck]

Absolutely Nuts about the FORD GT.

Thank you. :cheers

[Clax]

After years of having exotics with traction control, the lack of traction control on the GT is a refreshing change, and makes the car much more involving. My advice to anyone driving this car is to give it respect, and learn the limits of the car in a controlled environment (not on a busy street or highway).

[B O N Y]

I'm not sure that Canuck is a 'nut' - he's merely pointing out that to some, the GT is the perfect 'pure' enthusiasts car. Not only invoking the GT40, but also not cosseting it's pilot with driver aids.

It's an event to drive, not a daily drive (for me) and I enjoy it more for the uncontaminated driving experience.

Pushing through corners, hustling along country roads, hurtling down a freeway - are all enhanced by not having stability or traction aids deciding for you. There are thousands of cars that offer that - Ford could have included it. They didn't - and I applaud them for that.

I drove mine yesterday and deliberately put it sideways - fantastic!! In the Lamborghini or Aston I'd have to switch stuff off, in the GT it's always on tap. Putting it in a ditch is driver error - not GT error.


well said, agreed with you 100%, that is exactly how I see it, the charm of the car is part retromobile.

[californiacuda]

About 6 months ago I asked about performance mods for the Gt and I got the same response that I am now getting for traction control. Who could possibly consider changing this pure vehicle?

Now there seems to be many who are interested in adding more hp to the Gt. As this occurs and the car becomes considerably faster it become more of a challenge to control it.

Traction control will become mandatory for those who have added considerable hp and wish to drive their cars hard.

[Clax]

Traction control will become mandatory for those who have added considerable hp and wish to drive their cars hard.

I don't believe it will be mandatory, it will be the decision of the individual driver. I am planning to mod my car, and likely add about 150hp, but I have no intentions of adding any traction control. My traction control is my right foot, and slight countersteering inputs/corrections. If the car needs some throttle modulation in 1st and 2nd gear, then the driver will need to figure out how to get the best out of the car without losing it. This is not unlike racing on a roadcourse where a car can be cornered at a certain speed without sliding off the track -- the driver decides on the braking, entrance speed, throttle modulation, and when to accelerate out of the corner. The same concept applies to driving a car in a straight line that has tons of horsepower. Learning how to drive a car like this will ultimately make the person a better driver, but like I said earlier, it is good to learn this in a controlled environment. For those that have roadcourse racing experience, handling the car in a straight line shouldn't be too much of a problem. Throttle modulation and slight steering inputs/corrections are key.

[californiacuda]

I have already added 150 hp, let me know "after" you have it done.

[SLF360]

Not needed. Good driving skills and ability to feather the throttle are more so 'mandatory' or better, advised....


stefan

[Clax]

I have already added 150 hp, let me know "after" you have it done.

Sure, I'll be happy to let you know. It seems as though you are convinced that traction control is mandatory because it is your personal preference. Your personal preference is not necessarily the preference of someone else. To each his own.

Let me ask you, do you have any track experience? Cars are a lot more dangerous handling in corners than on straights. Throttle modulation is a lot easier in a straight line than throttle modulation in the corners, combined with braking and steering input. If you have not done any track driving, I would highly suggest it, as it allows you to explore your driving limits and comfort in a controlled environment.

May I ask what mods you have on your GT?

The only traction aid I will consider is chaning the tires up for PZero Corsa's (or something similar).

[californiacuda]

I agree to each his own, sorry if I got to carried away. Mods include pcorsa rear tires, 2.5 pulley, accufab throttle body, reinforced throttle tube between maf and throttle body (under high boost the plastic tube starts to collapse), 25 hrs on the dyno, with 100 octane 700rwhp, ford muffler (doesn't do anything), bumper delete. Car went 194 in 1 mile run last month. Working on more mods.

[SLF360]

Throttle modulation is a lot easier in a straight line than throttle modulation in the corners, combined with braking and steering input. If you have not done any track driving, I would highly suggest it, as it allows you to explore your driving limits and comfort in a controlled environment.
May I suggest you to adjust your seating position. Most likely, you are too far back if that is the case.
You should be in a position that you basically can operate the throttle with the foot alone, and your lower body nicely tucked in with some knee or lower leg support. Works perfectly in the Ferrari's, basically there is even a zone shaped to nicely have your leg rest against. That way you sit stable and won't move, even without any upper body support.
Very controlled and delicate to dose that way. Try it.

Fully agree with going to the track to learn the car when breaking out..

[Clax]

May I suggest you to adjust your seating position. Most likely, you are too far back if that is the case.
You should be in a position that you basically can operate the throttle with the foot alone, and your lower body nicely tucked in with some knee or lower leg support. Works perfectly in the Ferrari's, basically there is even a zone shaped to nicely have your leg rest against. That way you sit stable and won't move, even without any upper body support.
Very controlled and delicate to dose that way. Try it.

Fully agree with going to the track to learn the car when breaking out..

I wasn't stating that I am having trouble modulating the throttle in corners. Just trying to illustrate that if you have track experience, then modulating the throttle in a straight line becomes a lot easier (utilizing similar skills gained on the track). As for seating position, I have my seat quite far ahead in a track-like position at all times. I enjoy this feel on the street.

[SLF360]

As for seating position, I have my seat quite far ahead in a track-like position at all times. I enjoy this feel on the street.

Then you are the Man ! :thumbsup Same here, by the way... The others who read this should try it aswell, I guess we both recommend it for car control.. :wink

[nota4re]

I agree to each his own, sorry if I got to carried away. Mods include pcorsa rear tires, 2.5 pulley, accufab throttle body, reinforced throttle tube between maf and throttle body (under high boost the plastic tube starts to collapse), 25 hrs on the dyno, with 100 octane 700rwhp, ford muffler (doesn't do anything), bumper delete. Car went 194 in 1 mile run last month. Working on more mods.

cuda,

Congrats on your mods and your achievement of 7000HP. Pioneer the way for all of us, my friend!

Anyway, regarding traction control, I'm also for going without it. I think we would all agree that the car can be a handful stock. Imagine exiting a slow speed corner using second gear while back under acceleration. Even stock, you will have to modulate the throttle and rely on your feel for what the car is doing - and trying to keep it balanced.

The above scenario is admittedly a little trickier with your kind of HP, and you have less granularity of throttle control (each 1/8" depression dials in more HP) - but I would argue that it is still manageable as you get to know the car's characteristics. Additionally, with the HP you are running, this is not just going to occur in low gear acceleration but also with higher gear, higher speed corners where the stakes are higher. I guess my point is that if you get practiced with the car in stock form it will be easier to know/predict how it's going to behave with 700+ HP.

Best of luck to you and keep going!!!

[barondw]

7000 HP would really make it difficult to drive and accelerate out of a corner.
I know its a typo but I couldn't resist.


Dave

[SLF360]

So fAR Piko is still in the lead with max power, to my best knowledge .. :cheers

[californiacuda]

Yeah, its amazing what a 150-200 shot of nitrous will do. Very soon they will blow up the engine.

[Neilda]

I found this little snippet about traction control:


The Ford GT’s lack of traction control is a personal issue for chief project engineer Neil Hannemann. He challenged anotherdriver on metro Detroit’s Woodward Avenueone day, but forgot to switch off the tractioncontrol in his Mustang. “I made a fool ofmyself,” he says. “I never want that to happen to anyone in a GT"

[SLF360]

Even in the Ferraris, the fun only really begins when you turn it off... :eek Pumps Adrenaline, sharpens the senses, no net & strings, and real raw... With a sharp tool like the GT, You know you'll be pumped and attentive all the time..

and (as for the Enzo), everyone wrapped around a pole, just increases value for the rest of us :biggrin

[DB4-12K]

Piko is no longer the hp leader, someone else holds that title.

[barondw]

Even in the Ferraris, the fun only really begins when you turn it off... :eek Pumps Adrenaline, sharpens the senses, no net & strings, and real raw... With a sharp tool like the GT, You know you'll be pumped and attentive all the time..

and (as for the Enzo), everyone wrapped around a pole, just increases value for the rest of us :biggrin

Stephan

While I agree with you it depends upon driver skill level. If a person has a SCCA or FIA license that is one thing. Some of the buyers may not have acquired the reaction and driving skills required to catch a car before a problem arises especially one that is as powerful as the GT. Thus for those folks traction control may be a viable option.

That said I think cost issues made Ford not include traction control.

Dave

[B O N Y]

Dave, a point to ponder. However, do you agree that traction control gives a driver a false feeling of confidence? When you finally break one loose from the traction control the recovery for an untrained driver is near impossible.

You see all these computer controlled cars and when they are driven past the computers and drivers limits the results are usually very ugly.

Better understand that the GT has raw power and needs to be respected. Better understand your limits as well as that of the GT.

Cheers, daniel

[barondw]

Daniel

I would not agree with your statement on Traction Control. I have been "saved" at least twice by my Z06's Competition Mode when coming into corners too fast. Yes you can still keep the car on the road.

Second, I believe that most issues on the track come when accelerating out of a tight corner. If power is applied too early or too quickly the rear end will break loose and cause the car to loop. Traction control can stop the spin from happening. This is similar to the street where excess power causes the rear to break loose.

But its a matter of personal preference although getting out of the "macho mode" is difficult for many of us. T/C is another safety factor that can be useful for drivers (track or street) that get in a bit over their heads. If you don't like it fine, switch it off, but others probably should have it on all the time.

But keep in mind nothing is fool proof or idiot proof. Foolishness can oevrride any saftey net.

Dave

[Neilda]

There is perhaps, a more subtle point....

I have a Range Rover - it's the size of a small public building, weighs 3 tons and has 400 bhp with a supercharged engine. It needs all the technology - adaptive air suspension, traction control, 'intelligent' four wheel drive, stability control etc etc - to keep it on the road!! A bit like the stealth bomber, it just wouldn't fly without these systems. The Rangie would be in a ditch without this wizzardry.

The GT is well enough balanced and engineered not to need traction control as much as other vehicles. The benefits (feel and purity) outweighs the need.

Just a thought!

[canuck]

Parking my tongue and cheek attitude, I appreciate californiacuda's postition.
Even the best professional drivers in the world get into trouble from NASCAR to FORMULA 1. If you are flirting with 700+ horse power it is nice to have a saftey net to catch you. Generally I find traction control overintrusive at the consumer level for street cars. It is great for inexpereince drivers and I can remember before ever hitting the track that it saved me from an embarrasing situation of smashing up my Porsche in the rain. The one californiacuda installed probably can be dialed in at a varying degree and lets you find the "edge" a little more safely. There are cars as Neilda alluded to that cannot be driven without traction control. The SL 65 is such a car. A 4.6or 4.8 X5 in the winter time. The Ford gt in it original state is not handicapped by quirks and probably doesn't need traction control given a minimally seasoned mindful driver. It is a perfect marriage between chassi and power train. The thing that gets me though (back to tongue and cheek mode) is the people who buy this car that are the type of people that can't appreciate this car. They can read the articles. They can repeat the words spoken but they just cannot ever experience the beauty of a GT. They buy this car not for the love of what a car is but for the love of themselves. "Look at me, Look at my car." Ever seen the Seinfeld episode when the building supper is holding the fur coat and as he is squeezing it to his face he is talking about movie stars and Comedians like Jerry to Kramer? Nothing wrong with fur coats. I personally prefer sheep skin given my Greek heritage. Certainly each to his own and different stroke for different people. I HATE when a nice car like the GT gets smashed up by one of "those" people though. Californiacuda for someone like you, :thumbsup on the traction control. I have no doubt anyone who reads this site is a :thumbsup owner.

:cheers